Mantles burning yellow

Post your tech questions here, lots of knowledge available.
logo-3x1-48-Inches-1
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Mantles burning yellow

#1

Post by Gil P »

I've got two lanterns here, both using coleman mantles. One burns white, while the other is burning yellow. What could be the cause?

I tore down and cleaned both lanterns the same way. I did not use a snake to clean the inside of the burner tubes, however.

Yellow burning 220 is from 47, white burning 228 is from 69.

Image
User avatar
ThatNewColemanCollector
Senior Member
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:34 am

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#2

Post by ThatNewColemanCollector »

It can depend on what mantles you are using. Older Silk-Lite mantles contain thorium which is slightly radioactive whereas newer mantles that are readily available in stores are usually made with yittrium. Thorium tends to produce a whiter light and burn brighter than yittrium, and yittrium produces a slightly dimmer yellow light.

Alternatively, you could have an obstructed air inlet tube, mixing chamber and/or burner screens.
- Nolan

John 3:16
:cf_bowdown:
__________________
Coleman Slant Saver #100
User avatar
JimL
Certified Colemanaholic
Posts: 11911
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#3

Post by JimL »

I know of no reason that 220/228's don't usually burn as bright as single mantles such as 200A's. I seldom see one that does burn as bright. Your brighter one may be one of those flukes.

Admittedly, I never pursued this as I'm not a fan of 220's. I do like the 228's because they have a classy look with that big hat.
-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?

My gas stove identifies as electric.
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#4

Post by Gil P »

ThatNewColemanCollector wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:01 am It can depend on what mantles you are using. Older Silk-Lite mantles contain thorium which is slightly radioactive whereas newer mantles that are readily available in stores are usually made with yittrium. Thorium tends to produce a whiter light and burn brighter than yittrium, and yittrium produces a slightly dimmer yellow light.

Alternatively, you could have an obstructed air inlet tube, mixing chamber and/or burner screens.
Both lanterns have coleman mantles that were bought around the same time. It could be variance between the mantles.

In my very limited experience, the peerless mantles from OCP, which I've been told contain thorium, burn with more yellow light than my coleman mantles. It could be sample variance.

Do you think it could be the lantern itself? Do some lanterns burn slightly yellow?
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#5

Post by Gil P »

JimL wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:26 am I know of no reason that 220/228's don't usually burn as bright as single mantles such as 200A's. I seldom see one that does burn as bright. Your brighter one may be one of those flukes.

Admittedly, I never pursued this as I'm not a fan of 220's. I do like the 228's because they have a classy look with that big hat.
I've got a 237 inbound. It should be much brighter than any of my 220s. It will be interesting to compare them in terms of brightness and fuel consumption.
fjfj765
Colemanaholic
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:06 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#6

Post by fjfj765 »

Are they burning at the same brightness?
Looking for birthday stove/lantern - 06/2007 and 02/2008
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#7

Post by Gil P »

fjfj765 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:51 am Are they burning at the same brightness?
I think the 220 is dimmer, but it could be due to the warmer light. I certainly wouldn't describe it as a dim burning lantern.
MYN927
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2050
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:31 am

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#8

Post by MYN927 »

If the mantles are from the same make, type and production batch, then the yellower-glowing ones would indicate a lower flame temperature.
The latter could point to a less complete burning(slightly fuel-rich or air-lean) or a lower combustion rate(less pressure, less fuel-air throughput).
A thorough clean-up of the air tubes, mixing tube/chamber and check that the gas tip isn't worn.
fatherof31970
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 522
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 8:31 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#9

Post by fatherof31970 »

If they are newer Coleman mantles, they tend to burn a bit more yellow. So do Peerless. And there seems to be less quality control on the newer Coleman ones. I got 220's and 228's running silkies that are blinding white. Now, a good cleaning might be in order, but I think you just got a couple sets of lower quality newer Coleman mantles. They just don't make them like they used too. Also, pumping up the lantern good should help a lot. You will never go wrong with either of those lanterns. I prefer a 228 over a single any day.
Somehow I got pulled back into this hobby!
Ed
User avatar
Ridge Runner
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5803
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:39 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#10

Post by Ridge Runner »

Restricted or dirty air tubes, burner tubes and/or burner screens can cause a poor burn and yellow-ish light.
— L.J.
In the foothills of the Berkshires, Western Massachusetts

ICCC #2197
Mil-Spec Ops #1920
Coleman Slant Saver #80
Coleman Blues 243's #1980
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #68
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #1980
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #1980
I love the smell of naphtha in the morning!
"Ain’t no need to watch where I’m goin’; just need to know where I’ve been" -Tow Mater
User avatar
hikerduane
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 7024
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:33 am

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#11

Post by hikerduane »

I’ve usually seen lanterns, lamps need more pressure, but I’m sure a few could use a better cleaning, but they are good enough for what little time I run them. I have one of those art deco lanterns that I need to figure out, but I hate messing with the generator on the AGM lanterns. Messed the tip cleaner wire once already on the one.
Duane
ICCC member 2220. Formerly all seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#12

Post by Gil P »

I hadn't considered the gas tip being worn. I'll switch out the generators and see what happens.

I know the generator on the 228 is new, I didn't change the generator in the 220 because the packing was still white.

If that doesn't work, I'll clean out the burner tubes with a trumpet snake.
User avatar
Hot_Diggity
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5348
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:43 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#13

Post by Hot_Diggity »

I always thought it was a shame the bottom of the air tube on most lanterns isn't more accessible. With lamps I can push a fuzzy craft pipe cleaner up the air tube all the way into the mixing chamber. This has frequently knocked some sort of obstruction loose and resulted in mantles flashing to whiteness like somebody turned a dimmer switch to MAX. Funny thing is that I never see any flickers of stuff burning off inside the mantles or find anything like spider webs stuck to the pipe cleaner.

It's nice to be able to get instant confirmation that you've fixed something.
Chuck, 3/61, ICCC 1689
Milspec Syndicate #510
Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0510
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #12
BernzOmatic Appreciation Club #510
Coleman Slant Saver #510
Frank Appreciation Syndicate Member #2
Tinker, Toy maker, Trash picker, Wickie, Lamp loon
User avatar
critmass_34
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5834
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:22 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#14

Post by critmass_34 »

I don't know if it would help, but you could try more pressure in the fount.
My friends call me Big Jack
Coleman Quick Lite Crew # 77
Coleman Slant Saver # 98
User avatar
Dashwood
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:52 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#15

Post by Dashwood »

JimL wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:26 am I know of no reason that 220/228's don't usually burn as bright as single mantles such as 200A's. I seldom see one that does burn as bright. Your brighter one may be one of those flukes.

Admittedly, I never pursued this as I'm not a fan of 220's. I do like the 228's because they have a classy look with that big hat.
Manufacturing tolerances may also play a role in assymetrical brightness, sometimes a burr or slight differences in the cast of the mixing chamber can lead to one burner developing a bias in brightness to one side.

I too am somewhat more fond of single mantles, They seem to throw more light than a double since there isn't two burners to split the difference is my hypothesis.
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#16

Post by Gil P »

critmass_34 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:54 pm I don't know if it would help, but you could try more pressure in the fount.
It helps a little bit. The picture I took was after a lot of added pressure.

Hopefully I'll have some time after work to mess with the lantern.
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#17

Post by Gil P »

It looks a little better with a different generator. I was mistaken about the generators earlier. The 228 has the generator it came with, the generator packing was still white.

The 220 had a new reproduction generator, I swapped it with a new reproduction generator from a different 220.


Image

Image

Image
fjfj765
Colemanaholic
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:06 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#18

Post by fjfj765 »

I've played around with both peerless and Coleman mantles. They're the same color and brightness. I conducted a side by side test with 1 Yttrium Coleman and an OCP peerless on my 327. Both looked the same. I run peerless because they are cheaper.

The most important factor in ensuring bright, white light is to get a strong flame. Everything else is secondary.
Looking for birthday stove/lantern - 06/2007 and 02/2008
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#19

Post by Gil P »

I cleaned out the burner pipes and mixing chamber. Upon initial inspection, they were clear to begin with. No obstructions whatsoever, but I snaked them anyway

I installed peerless mantles and the lantern is still dim in comparison to my other ones.

I have another 220 that is using peerless mantles from the same bag (4 pack) as the ones I just Installed on my dim 220.

The dim 220 is considerably dimmer than my other 220 with peerless mantles from the same bag.
User avatar
Dashwood
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:52 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#20

Post by Dashwood »

Then it's time to dig deeper, make sure to clean out any sticky residue inside the tip cleaner body, valve body and especially the fuel air pickup. That's the most important as gunk can sometimes form inside the pickup between the tube and metering rod.
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#21

Post by Gil P »

Dashwood wrote: Sun Jul 14, 2024 5:04 am Then it's time to dig deeper, make sure to clean out any sticky residue inside the tip cleaner body, valve body and especially the fuel air pickup. That's the most important as gunk can sometimes form inside the pickup between the tube and metering rod.
I cleaned every part liberally when I first got it and the brightness has always been the same. It would have been impossible for me to miss something.

However, it is possible that I didn't clean the fount out well enough before I put it together and it could be gunking up the fuel/air tube.

I noticed sticky reside in the generator. It was blue in color. It could be from the brass fount or Coleman fuel.

I used evaporust to clean the rust out of the bottom of the fount. Maybe I didn't clean it up well enough. Evaporust is sticky.
User avatar
Dashwood
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:52 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#22

Post by Dashwood »

Possible, would do a swirl of acetone, shake it inside the fount.
User avatar
Toby
Moderator
Posts: 14471
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:47 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#23

Post by Toby »

How far into the air tube is the generator protruding on the dim lantern? It's common for lanterns that have been dropped on their head to have an air tube that has been forced down which causes the gen to go in further, which in turn becomes it's own air restriction. This is a very over looked issue on this style burner. In your photos I'm not seeing any obvious air tube kinks, but it could still be the cause. Otherwise both burners should be the same between your D and F.
Toby Garner, from SW Missouri
ICCC #1939
Gil P
Senior Member
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:01 pm

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#24

Post by Gil P »

I don't see much of a difference in generator protrusion into the air tube from either lantern.
MYN927
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2050
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:31 am

Re: Mantles burning yellow

#25

Post by MYN927 »

If there's another 220 burner tube assembly at hand, I'd be inclined to give that a try too.
They don't always produce identical results.
logo-3x1-48-Inches-1
Post Reply

Return to “Technical Assistance”