The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

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burnt bacon
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The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#1

Post by burnt bacon »

*Not a new installment from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Picked up an honestly used 413G, July '76, 30 bucks, gonna call it my Independence Stove...decent shape, interior needs to be gussied up, pumper looks shot (there was a new replacement inside, may or may not use).

But, the valve wheel won't move, for that matter neither will the fuel cap. Would like to free it without breaking anything. If someone could tap out a quick fix procedure would much appreciate it.

Meanwhile, this is ingenious. The lady said it was her mother's stove, and mother, who was evidently no dummy, modified the box a bit for transporting. She cut the flaps off on one end, reinforced the edges with black tape (must have been before duct tape), then cut out an area for the handle to poke through, reinforced this opening with tape, also. So, just slide it into the box, grab the handle and off you go! Has anyone else thought of that?

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Chucker
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#2

Post by Chucker »

I'm sure others have done something similar, it is very inventive.

As for the valve wheel, you can hit it on the brass bits with a chef's torch (small, butane powered usually) or if you are adept with a propane torch you can hit it with that. Be careful to avoid scorching the paint of course. Use a leather gloved hand to turn the wheel or be careful with a pair of pliers if you want. (Some cringe at the word, "pliers" btw).

The fuel cap can be turned typically with a pair of pliers WITH leather or other thick cloth covering the griping surfaces. A few wraps with duct tape is usually good.

I do NOT use heat on fuel caps unless I have removed the valve and even added some water even though I only heat the cap for 5-10 seconds when needed. Just thinking of safety.
Chuck
"...Good people pass away; the godly often die before their time. But no one seems to care or wonder why. No one seems to understand that God is protecting them from the evil days to come." Matthew 57:1

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burnt bacon
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#3

Post by burnt bacon »

Chucker wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:20 am I'm sure others have done something similar, it is very inventive.

As for the valve wheel, you can hit it on the brass bits with a chef's torch (small, butane powered usually) or if you are adept with a propane torch you can hit it with that. Be careful to avoid scorching the paint of course. Use a leather gloved hand to turn the wheel or be careful with a pair of pliers if you want. (Some cringe at the word, "pliers" btw).

The fuel cap can be turned typically with a pair of pliers WITH leather or other thick cloth covering the griping surfaces. A few wraps with duct tape is usually good.

I do NOT use heat on fuel caps unless I have removed the valve and even added some water even though I only heat the cap for 5-10 seconds when needed. Just thinking of safety.
Thank you for the response. I was also thinking WD-40, or oil, or maybe Kroil, latter of which i don't have any currently.
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#4

Post by REJ2 »

Evenly applied heat with the propane torch works almost every time. Heat, apply force to turn, repeat
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burnt bacon
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#5

Post by burnt bacon »

REJ2 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:56 am Evenly applied heat with the propane torch works almost every time. Heat, apply force to turn, repeat
TY 10-4
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#6

Post by JimL »

For the stuck valve, I find loosening the valve nut just a hair can free it. If that doesn't work, I go right to Bob's suggestion and warm it up with a torch. I say warm because you may not need to get it hot. If warm doesn't do it, apply more heat.

If the fuel cap is a 3-piece (has a screw in the center), see if you can remove the screw, which will leave the insert behind if the cap now comes off. You can then use a blade or screwdriver to remove the insert left behind. If a 1-piece cap (no screw), then I go for the leather or thick rubber and a pair of pliers. You want thick so the teeth of the pliers don't damage the surface of the cap.
-Jim

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burnt bacon
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#7

Post by burnt bacon »

JimL wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 am For the stuck valve, I find loosening the valve nut just a hair can free it. If that doesn't work, I go right to Bob's suggestion and warm it up with a torch. I say warm because you may not need to get it hot. If warm doesn't do it, apply more heat.

If the fuel cap is a 3-piece (has a screw in the center), see if you can remove the screw, which will leave the insert behind if the cap now comes off. You can then use a blade or screwdriver to remove the insert left behind. If a 1-piece cap (no screw), then I go for the leather or thick rubber and a pair of pliers. You want thick so the teeth of the pliers don't damage the surface of the cap.
Yup, TY...one piece cap, and for some reason it's green, not red...
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#8

Post by REJ2 »

burnt bacon wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:09 am
JimL wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 am For the stuck valve, I find loosening the valve nut just a hair can free it. If that doesn't work, I go right to Bob's suggestion and warm it up with a torch. I say warm because you may not need to get it hot. If warm doesn't do it, apply more heat.

If the fuel cap is a 3-piece (has a screw in the center), see if you can remove the screw, which will leave the insert behind if the cap now comes off. You can then use a blade or screwdriver to remove the insert left behind. If a 1-piece cap (no screw), then I go for the leather or thick rubber and a pair of pliers. You want thick so the teeth of the pliers don't damage the surface of the cap.
Yup, TY...one piece cap, and for some reason it's green, not red...
Let me expand a little upon the insert left behind. Make sure the fount is not under pressure when prying it off. Definitely free the valve first, remove the generator because they can become plugged, now open valve. If you hear air escaping it is under pressure, how much, who knows. Just dont have your face over the fuel filler and pry off a stuck insert without making sure the fount is depressurized. I know you said it was a one piece cap so this info doesn't apply this time.
Bob    ICCC #1574
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#9

Post by Majicwrench »

Heat! on both. Don't be shy, propane torch works well. Cut a strip of leather off some old boots to use on that cap too.
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burnt bacon
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#10

Post by burnt bacon »

REJ2 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:29 am
burnt bacon wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:09 am
JimL wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:07 am For the stuck valve, I find loosening the valve nut just a hair can free it. If that doesn't work, I go right to Bob's suggestion and warm it up with a torch. I say warm because you may not need to get it hot. If warm doesn't do it, apply more heat.

If the fuel cap is a 3-piece (has a screw in the center), see if you can remove the screw, which will leave the insert behind if the cap now comes off. You can then use a blade or screwdriver to remove the insert left behind. If a 1-piece cap (no screw), then I go for the leather or thick rubber and a pair of pliers. You want thick so the teeth of the pliers don't damage the surface of the cap.
Yup, TY...one piece cap, and for some reason it's green, not red...
Let me expand a little upon the insert left behind. Make sure the fount is not under pressure when prying it off. Definitely free the valve first, remove the generator because they can become plugged, now open valve. If you hear air escaping it is under pressure, how much, who knows. Just dont have your face over the fuel filler and pry off a stuck insert without making sure the fount is depressurized. I know you said it was a one piece cap so this info doesn't apply this time.
Thanks for the follow up and additional perspective, I do appreciate it. I doubt the fount is currently under pressure. The pump is not functioning and there was an unused pump apparatus found inside. Someone must have decided to try and fix that and never did.
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#11

Post by JimL »

Leaving an insert behind will not apply to you since you have the 1-piece cap.
-Jim

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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#12

Post by burnt bacon »

JimL wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:52 pm Leaving an insert behind will not apply to you since you have the 1-piece cap.
I know, thanks.
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#13

Post by REJ2 »

I've got another pressurized fount no-no. This one I have done! All you need is a pressurized fount, small amount of carb cleaner in pump tube, long, wooden, pointed, BBQ skewer, and a flashlight. I can tell ya carb cleaner doesn't taste bad at all, but its hell on the eyes!!
Bob    ICCC #1574
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#14

Post by burnt bacon »

REJ2 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:55 pm I've got another pressurized fount no-no. This one I have done! All you need is a pressurized fount, small amount of carb cleaner in pump tube, long, wooden, pointed, BBQ skewer, and a flashlight. I can tell ya carb cleaner doesn't taste bad at all, but its hell on the eyes!!
:o
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#15

Post by REJ2 »

burnt bacon wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:25 pm
REJ2 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:55 pm I've got another pressurized fount no-no. This one I have done! All you need is a pressurized fount, small amount of carb cleaner in pump tube, long, wooden, pointed, BBQ skewer, and a flashlight. I can tell ya carb cleaner doesn't taste bad at all, but its hell on the eyes!!
:o
Push the little ball in on the check valve while under pressure, instant splash in the face :cf_cry:
Bob    ICCC #1574
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Perfection Heater Collectors # 7 --- Coleman Slant Saver #63
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#16

Post by burnt bacon »

REJ2 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:58 pm
Push the little ball in on the check valve while under pressure, instant splash in the face :cf_cry:
Some people have all the fun... :!:
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#17

Post by burnt bacon »

i appreciate all the comments, realizing my questions are mostly dumb..
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#18

Post by REJ2 »

burnt bacon wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:09 pm i appreciate all the comments, realizing my questions are mostly dumb..
Never a dumb question my friend
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#19

Post by Chucker »

Keep us updated on your progress!
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#20

Post by burnt bacon »

Chucker wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:09 am Keep us updated on your progress!
Sure will, the good the bad and the ugly...
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#21

Post by burnt bacon »

Looking over the threads here, a few of the FB groups, and YT vids, it occurs that this fix it up passion involves one heck of a lot of skill!
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#22

Post by burnt bacon »

*and knowledge
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#23

Post by REJ2 »

burnt bacon wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:26 pm Looking over the threads here, a few of the FB groups, and YT vids, it occurs that this fix it up passion involves one heck of a lot of skill!
The basic lanterns as shipped from Coleman thru the years really arent that tough to fettle. The skill is guys like Toby and others who can transplant the head of a Dingo onto the body of a Cape Buffalo, take it to the fair and win best in show! These skill guys can produce some very nice Franks.
Bob    ICCC #1574
Never, ever, leave behind a $5 lamp
Perfection Heater Collectors # 7 --- Coleman Slant Saver #63
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#24

Post by burnt bacon »

REJ2 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:31 pm
burnt bacon wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:26 pm Looking over the threads here, a few of the FB groups, and YT vids, it occurs that this fix it up passion involves one heck of a lot of skill!
The basic lanterns as shipped from Coleman thru the years really arent that tough to fettle. The skill is guys like Toby and others who can transplant the head of a Dingo onto the body of a Cape Buffalo, take it to the fair and win best in show! These skill guys can produce some very nice Franks.
+1
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#25

Post by hikerduane »

Not fixed yet?
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#26

Post by holliswood »

If you have rubber strap wrenches, they’ll remove that filler cap. I’ve never had any damage to the filler cap or tank/fount using them.
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#27

Post by burnt bacon »

hikerduane wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:36 am Not fixed yet?
Duane
not yet i'm still 'strategizing'

actually today i will look for a suitable torch, i got this
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#28

Post by burnt bacon »

on a related note, a replacement valve wheel for the 426D did arrive yesterday from OCP

(hope to avoid the same problem with the 413G :shock: )

*Clarification, I'm not the rascal who broke the valve wheel on this one.
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#29

Post by burnt bacon »

I don't have or use a lot of tools, but one that I go back to time and again is a mini-version of vice grips, so handy for many things. I'm sure I'll be using this tool, or a larger version when working on these Colemans. It will be used on stuck fuel caps, vent nuts, etc.
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Re: The Case of the Frozen Valve Wheel

#30

Post by burnt bacon »

Update, still haven't cleared off the bench yet. Meanwhile, I have collected a few items, that I will put up soon...

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