Por 15 for a couple leakers

Post your tech questions here, lots of knowledge available.
Post Reply
Thedudeinboise
Senior Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:37 pm

Por 15 for a couple leakers

#1

Post by Thedudeinboise »

I bought an 8oz can of Por 15 in an effort to seal a 220C with pinholes and an AGM with a leak in the bottom seam. I'm mostly doing this to see if I can recover either of these lanterns as an experiment. I'm starting with the 220C and the fount has been drying for 24 hours. It's pretty clean otherwise after I did a citric bath a while back and then flushed with carb cleaner and then white gas. I actually had it running for a bit before I realized it was the pinholes causing it to lose pressure so quickly.

How much of the 8oz should I use for one fount?
Do I need to worry about clogging the check valve?
-Adam
-Interested in anything late '82 or 3/55
-Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #1208
Majicwrench
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:33 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#2

Post by Majicwrench »

I use POR 15 on lots of things. I do always use the Metal Ready and Marine clean to prep the metal.

Certainly you need to be concerned about pluggin check valve or the little snorkel. You should have pump in lantern and be pumping air into lantern for a few time as product sets, this will keep the snorkel free of product.

Where is the leak??
Keith
Thedudeinboise
Senior Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:37 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#3

Post by Thedudeinboise »

The 220C has 3 pinholes basically smack dab in the middle of the bottom.
-Adam
-Interested in anything late '82 or 3/55
-Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #1208
Dmacp
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:56 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#4

Post by Dmacp »

you should ask Frank for his opinion on this.
Dan
ICCC member #604
User avatar
hikerduane
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2934
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:33 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#5

Post by hikerduane »

I use this stuff when the seam at the bottom has leaks.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
Thedudeinboise
Senior Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:37 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#6

Post by Thedudeinboise »

The AGM has a seam issue, the 220C has pinholes. At this point the debate is whether to apply the Por 15 treatment to both at the same time or to the 220C first as a tester and then go for the AGM when I've figured out the process.
-Adam
-Interested in anything late '82 or 3/55
-Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #1208
User avatar
hikerduane
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2934
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:33 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#7

Post by hikerduane »

Should be enough to treat both, stuff is consistency of paint. Try one at a time so you don't feel hurried. Mix good before applying. I'm currently treating an old fount with lye before sealing. Takes a bit to completely dry out any water or other stuff.
Tap a hole in the can so the hole can be sealed with a screw or nail, 8oz. will be more than enough.
Duane
Duane-All seasons, year round backpacker and camper.  So many stoves and lanterns, who's counting.
Majicwrench
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:33 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#8

Post by Majicwrench »

POR15 will seal the seam on the AGM well. The pinholes are from rust, thus the bottom is not as sturdy as once was. Poke around well with a pick or something, and work around the holes to see how the metal is.
To see how much you need, take a small measuring device (Teaspoon, tablespoon, old bottle cap. Invert font. Now see how much water it takes to cover bottom of font. That is how much you need to cover bottom inside font. You don't want thick product.
When doing the actual sealing, tape over the pinholes to product doesn't leak out.

I would do them both at once, the less you mess with POR15 the longer can will last. Do not remove lid, drill small hole to let some out, then put a screw in hole when done.
Keith
User avatar
JimL
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5689
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#9

Post by JimL »

Pinholes tell you that the fount is seriously compromised and should be tossed. The pinholes you see are just the first to appear.

I know some folks here think nothing of using or recommending POR-15 when the folks that make POR don't feel their product appropriate for use on a GPA, so I wouldn't either. Caswell's was the only company with a tank sealer that had confidence in their product for this application. It really comes down to your risk tolerance. I'm pretty afraid of house fires, so would never consider it, especially knowing that the fount is so compromised. Unless it was a fount on an extremely rare GPA, I'd reconsider on the sealer, and if I did it anyway, it wouldn't be POR for a compromised fount. Remember that these tank sealers were designed for fuel tanks such as your car or motorcycle, and not a pressurized fuel tank.

Admittedly, I have some POR-15 and will use it on an M-1942 stove. In this case, it's a break in the seam of the filler neck that I can't get to take the silver solder I have. The fount is stainless steel so no rust, the break is not large enough to see with the naked eye, and if or when the POR-15 fails under pressure, only air will escape and not liquid fuel.
-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?

You shouldn't believe anything until it's been officially denied - Claud Cockburn
Majicwrench
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:33 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#10

Post by Majicwrench »

"when the folks that make POR don't feel their product appropriate for use on a GPA,"

Jim, where did you hear this??
Keith
User avatar
JimL
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5689
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#11

Post by JimL »

A few years ago, a member on the forum contacted each of the companies making tank sealers and only Caswell's reportedly felt their product was suitable for GPA's. Unfortunately, it appears that thread was deleted during the initial large purge. Ever since, I print off good threads to PDF so the info won't be permanently lost again.

There was another member that was supposedly researching all of these these sealers and even had a pic of Caswells failing, with a bubble of the stuff coming through a stress crack long after being sealed, but that thread too is gone, along with the member. I don't know how valid this latter one is. This member had a reputation for posting hot and heavy, and then disappearing for many months at a time. Right before his last disappearance, he committed to providing the info he had researched, but never came back.
-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?

You shouldn't believe anything until it's been officially denied - Claud Cockburn
User avatar
JimL
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5689
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#12

Post by JimL »

I just went to "porproducts" website and asked them the question for myself. I'll report back their response when I get it.
-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?

You shouldn't believe anything until it's been officially denied - Claud Cockburn
Majicwrench
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:33 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#13

Post by Majicwrench »

Excellent. Looking forward to what you find out.
If I recall correctly (yeah right) in the old thread, The POR folks said something like "has not been tested on a pressure vessel" or something like that.
Keith
Dmacp
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:56 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#14

Post by Dmacp »

you've got to understand the risk. Not just you the repair man but someone down the road who will inherit the lantern. I worked as an engineer. You could really sense the desperation in a poor design when someone reaches for "glue". And that is what you are doing. You are fixing a leaking pressure vessel that contains combustible fuel in the proximity of a strong flame. And you are fixing it with glue. If that glue lets go while the lantern is roaring and hot, you could have a tragedy on your hands. I'd prefer Caswell's as the better of two evils, as Caswell's is an epoxy and is a thermoset. It crosslinks when it cures. But it does not crosslink to the fount. only to itself, and it softens under heat.
Here is a fount that let go on me in my kitchen, several years after I sealed it. Yes it held for a while. But one day I burned the lantern long enough to get it good and hot.
I was burning gasoline but hot kerosene also vaporizes. That's what brought down flight 800. vaporized kerosene from a nearly empty tank mounted right over the A/C condensers and compressors.
The fuel was able to get under the sealer on this preway. However the epoxy paint on the outside held and I was able to get it shut down. I have a list of potential errors I committed doing this job. But the biggest error was using it in the first place. It was a close call. It would have been a flame thrower right there in my kitchen.
por 004.jpg
por 006.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Dmacp on Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Dan
ICCC member #604
Thedudeinboise
Senior Member
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:37 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#15

Post by Thedudeinboise »

Dan, you're convincing me to return the Por 15 and just be patient with the parts I have for this AGM and 220C until I come across some structurally sound founts.
-Adam
-Interested in anything late '82 or 3/55
-Coleman 275 Appreciation Syndicate #1208
TSPORT
Senior Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#16

Post by TSPORT »

Majicwrench wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:21 pm I would do them both at once, the less you mess with POR15 the longer can will last. Do not remove lid, drill small hole to let some out, then put a screw in hole when done.
I used POR15 quite a bit when doing vehicle restoration. Another way to make it last a long time (stuff isn't cheap!) is to place plastic wrap (Saran, etc.) between the lid and rim when closing and keep it in the refrigerator between uses.
I have had partially used cans remain good for years by doing this. If you get POR15 between the lid and rim when closing and it dries, good luck getting the lid off!
Steve
Partial to single mantles & backpacking stoves (liquid fuel, of course!)
Dmacp
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:56 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#17

Post by Dmacp »

Adam-
Over the years I have found crack free founts for each of the cracked AGM's I own. They did not all crack, only most of them. Old cores are usually cheap on ebay. So I scrutinized them and bought them if they looked solid. I'd have them plated or painted, and when the fount was clean inside and out I put a tablespoon of Caswell's in and coat the clean insides.
That 220 fount should be easy to find a replacement for.
I know it is not "instant gratification" having a lantern restoration take that long but you'll be mighty proud of it when done.
Dan
ICCC member #604
User avatar
JimL
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5689
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#18

Post by JimL »

I realized that I didn't include what I wrote to POR-15 support for the response I received. To be transparent, this is exactly what I wrote:

"Is POR-15 Fuel Tank Sealer suitable to seal fuel tanks under pressure, such as Coleman lanterns and stoves? These will typically run from around 20 PSI to a max of around 40 PSI.

By sealing these, I mean a fount(fuel tank) that currently has one or more pinhole leaks.

Thanks,
-Jim "


This is the response I received from POR-15 support:

"I believe it will work for you but it's something we have not tested."
Last edited by JimL on Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?

You shouldn't believe anything until it's been officially denied - Claud Cockburn
Majicwrench
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:33 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#19

Post by Majicwrench »

Thanks for the info Jim.
Keith
User avatar
JimL
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5689
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#20

Post by JimL »

To be explicit on this, I've updated my post above to include exactly what I wrote to POR-15 support. I imagine that someone may wonder in the future what I wrote, and I may not remember exactly so I saved it to post but forgot earlier.
-Jim

Flammable liquids, open flame, what could go wrong?

You shouldn't believe anything until it's been officially denied - Claud Cockburn
User avatar
Chucker
Moderator
Posts: 7737
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:37 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#21

Post by Chucker »

The 220 and 228 founts are easy to find, only a little harder for a C without cracks. I have both without cracks. I recommend just replacing the fount.

YMMV.
Chuck
"...Good people pass away; the godly often die before their time. But no one seems to care or wonder why. No one seems to understand that God is protecting them from the evil days to come." Matthew 57:1

Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
tretrop
Junior Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:23 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#22

Post by tretrop »

One thing on sealing the inside of the funt that I would like to hear your comments on is if it would be possibel to tinn the inside ? There is products for carbody work that I think of to use on the inside of the funt.
TSPORT
Senior Member
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#23

Post by TSPORT »

TSPORT wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:04 pm
Majicwrench wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:21 pm I would do them both at once, the less you mess with POR15 the longer can will last. Do not remove lid, drill small hole to let some out, then put a screw in hole when done.
I used POR15 quite a bit when doing vehicle restoration. Another way to make it last a long time (stuff isn't cheap!) is to place plastic wrap (Saran, etc.) between the lid and rim when closing and keep it in the refrigerator between uses.
I have had partially used cans remain good for years by doing this. If you get POR15 between the lid and rim when closing and it dries, good luck getting the lid off!
Just revisited this thread to see new comments. Just want to clarify that my comments above are regarding the black POR-15 RUST PREVENTIVE COATING. I have no experience with the fuel tank coating.
- Steve
Steve
Partial to single mantles & backpacking stoves (liquid fuel, of course!)
User avatar
Deanofid
Moderator
Posts: 2958
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#24

Post by Deanofid »

Dan, I'm glad to see you speaking up in this thread, but wish you would show the more complete story with this blue fount, as you showed some years ago. I recall a huge blister looking thing, like a great big blood blister on a person's thumb, that encompassed about 2" x 2" on the outside of your blue fount where the fount had leaked and made said blister on the outside of the fount, BETWEEN the PAINT and the FOUNT. It was a huge thing, about half the size of a tennis ball. The best reason I have ever seen to avoid this particular fount sealer ever presented on this forum. Quite impressive, and scary as all get out!

Do you still have that pic with the huge blister of paint that was all that was holding back the difference between you and eternity? It is a very persuasive photo!

Thank you,

Dean
Dean -Midnight Kerosene Ritualist--Deans Machine:  Deansmachine.com  
ICCC #1220.   275 commiseration #0018.
"In Him was life, and His life was the Light of men."  John 1:4
MYN927
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 553
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:31 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#25

Post by MYN927 »

tretrop wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:58 am One thing on sealing the inside of the funt that I would like to hear your comments on is if it would be possibel to tinn the inside ? There is products for carbody work that I think of to use on the inside of the funt.
I would believe coating the internal of the fount with solder or tinning is possibly one of the best. That's provided you can ensure there are no dry joints and the solder completely wets the surface and able to wick into all cracks and pin holes.
Since that'll involve heating the font, it'll provide some stress relieve on the brass too.
A fair amount of reactive fluxes might be required for this.
If this could be done properly, I'd say the level of adherence is definitely higher that what could be attained with epoxies or any other tank sealers.
User avatar
outlawmws
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2943
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:51 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#26

Post by outlawmws »

Solder could be problematic on older founts that were soft soldered. With modern founts and braze/Silver-solder, not so much an issue.
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


User avatar
Jeepstircrazy
Colmanaholic
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:28 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#27

Post by Jeepstircrazy »

So it finally gets around to the topic of solder....why is that not an option from the start? We have all had trouble reading what was stamped on the bottom of a fount because of the factory solder being too thick or flowed too far.....or is that a zinc coating? Either way solder is used on pressurized systems worldwide as far as I know. I have an Akron lamp that has one inch long pressure crack that I am considering soldering . It has minuscule bubbles that rise from the crack while submerged. Do I really care if it has one soldered crack as long as I can use it as it was intended? Or is it as blasphemous as electrifying it. My AGM lantern can sport a 200A fount or why can't I just solder all the way around the squat little leaking bastard that is supposed to be on it and repaint? I'm not opposed to waiting around for an uncracked fount to appear in my path, but do I have to wait? I do have some lead solder...
Wayne signing off...

What's the lowest you'll take for this lantern?                                                

          Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
MYN927
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 553
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:31 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#28

Post by MYN927 »

The problem is, once the fount already have one or two stress cracks, there's bound to be more on the way. If its a gasoline or CF-fueled lantern, the risk is too obvious. Not so much if its kero-fueled.
So by just soldering the present crack from the outside, you won't entirely sort out the problem as more would develop elsewhere later.
You'd need to completely coat the fount's internal with solder before its anywhere decent. And its not particularly easy to do that.
Its just much easier with POR-15, Caswells or other tank sealers.
User avatar
Jeepstircrazy
Colmanaholic
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:28 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#29

Post by Jeepstircrazy »

Thanks MYN927, that makes perfect logical sense... much appreciated!
Wayne signing off...

What's the lowest you'll take for this lantern?                                                

          Today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.
User avatar
outlawmws
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2943
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:51 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#30

Post by outlawmws »

Agree with MYZ for soldering pressure vessels, but as a side note, I have (very carefully) soldered a stress cracked brass pump, and an AGM hollow pump stem successfully, and since they do not contain fuel or sustained High pressures, it is fine and completely safe. Will they fail again later? Maybe; but if they do its not going to cause a fireball.

I have also soldered two AGM tanks - one was a reflow of a cracked solder joint for the output tube so no different than the original solder job. (I filled it near to the top with water to reduce the volume of air/Fumes release from the fuel soaked metal (I DIDN'T do this on a "cleaned" 5 gallon Jerry can and still got several "whoofs" out of it...) - The second was a crack at the folded seam where I flowed solder on the inside into the cracked seam area. That tank I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned, no "whoof")

Its all in applying the appropriate repair in an appropriate fashion.
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


Dmacp
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:56 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#31

Post by Dmacp »

Do you still have that pic with the huge blister of paint that was all that was holding back the difference between you and eternity? It is a very persuasive photo!
Dean I'm sure I have it around here somewhere-probably on my old computer. I'll dig it up and edit my post. Glad it's useful!
Dan
ICCC member #604
Majicwrench
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2939
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:33 pm

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#32

Post by Majicwrench »

Jeepster, a few years ago a member soldered MANY cracks on a font, and it did work when he was done.

Let's face it, any lantern, sooner or later, is gonna leak somewhere. Any lantern you light tonight could crack minutes before you light it. Could crack tomorrow, or a decade from now. Or have a rust spot on bottom just waiting to fail. The packing could leak. The genny nut. If you want a totally safe hobby this may not be for you. No lantern is totally perfectly safe, they are all a fire hazard. Don't light one, even your fav Coleman product, in the living room and walk away.

That picture above of the blue lantern, the POR15 looks puddled (or maybe just shadows??) and those globby drops?? That is not the way POR15 sets up when I use it. Not sure what is going on there. I have used it on gas tanks, auto body, and now lanterns and stoves. It is tough stuff, and it works.
Keith
Dmacp
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2826
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:56 am

Re: Por 15 for a couple leakers

#33

Post by Dmacp »

We have all had trouble reading what was stamped on the bottom of a fount because of the factory solder being too thick or flowed too far.....or is that a zinc coating?
It's hot tin dip. Similar to solder but not used for the same reason.
Dan
ICCC member #604
Post Reply