I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

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BjornBee
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I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#1

Post by BjornBee »

I was tearing down a 290CLX trying to get the valve assembly off the fount. (yes, it is bad)
There is no real way (or so I thought) to put a wrench on the top of the fount as it round and I didn't want to damage it.
So I had a wrench on the valve assembly, and was holding the fount down on the table on its side.
And then it happened. The whole fount ripped apart 1/2 inch from the fount where the valve assembly enters.
There is no seam there. Nothing to indicate that would happen.

Is this common?
I don't see another way to place a wrench of any type on the fount except the small round portion that the valve assembly goes into.
But that is not built for a wrench. It's smooth rounded.
And that's only about a 1/2 inch area. Not much to grip without damaging that....which is what I was trying to not to do.
I did not use an impact tool. Is that the way to go? Or do these newer model simply don't allow (poor quality) for this type manipulation.
Anyone ever experience this? Any words of wisdom?
I just was not expecting this outcome.
Thank you
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Tgarner01
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#2

Post by Tgarner01 »

So... You ripped open a fount with a wrench on the brass valve assembly?... We need pictures of both the fount and your arm muscles 😁
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JimL
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#3

Post by JimL »

We'd like to see pics of that fount.,

I can only imagine that the fount was already seriously compromised for it to tear open. If it was an old soldered in bung, it would make sense, but not a recent fount like that.
-Jim

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BjornBee
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#4

Post by BjornBee »

Tgarner01 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:54 pm So... You ripped open a fount with a wrench on the brass valve assembly?... We need pictures of both the fount and your arm muscles 😁
I hear you! LOL.
While I am 6'3" and 300 pounds...I'm thinking there was a flaw in the metal or something else in play.
I'll see about a pic. For the arms...do you want a full body shot for reference? LOL.
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#5

Post by BjornBee »

JimL wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:56 pm We'd like to see pics of that fount.,

I can only imagine that the fount was already seriously compromised for it to tear open. If it was an old soldered in bung, it would make sense, but not a recent fount like that.
I just watched a video of a guy with an impact drill and he used a socket coming down over the valve assembly.
Of course his broke right apart. (like it was loosened previously) LOL.
Is that the way to go?
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#6

Post by zoomkat »

A little research effort will provide the methods commonly used to remove valve assemblies from the tanks with lower probabilities of damage to the tank and valve assembly.
BjornBee
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#7

Post by BjornBee »

zoomkat wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:13 pm A little research effort will provide the methods commonly used to remove valve assemblies from the tanks with lower probabilities of damage to the tank and valve assembly.
Unless you don't have an impact drill. LOL.
What I also did was whacked the wrench a few times with a heavy hammer thinking I could break the hold.
I suspect that is where the real damage occurred. And in hindsight, it may not of been lined up perfectly to take the twist.
It became cockeyed. Lessoned learned.
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Whitegas Extraordinaire
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#8

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

I limit myself to using a 3# drilling hammer when removing valves from founts.
But I’m only 6’2”, 260#. 🤪

Thank you!
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Tigerfans2
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#9

Post by Tigerfans2 »

Sounds like the best case occurred.
A good fount doesn't do that
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#10

Post by zoomkat »

"Unless you don't have an impact drill. LOL."

Cut with an ax, pound to fit, paint to match... ;)
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Deanofid
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#11

Post by Deanofid »

Bjorn, I have a brand new, never used CLX fount. Still has the factory Coleman red plug in the valve bung. It's a genuine replacement part. If you want it, $15 plus shipping. It's perfect, new.
PM me if you want it.

Dean
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BjornBee
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#12

Post by BjornBee »

Deanofid wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:58 pm Bjorn, I have a brand new, never used CLX fount. Still has the factory Coleman red plug in the valve bung. It's a genuine replacement part. If you want it, $15 plus shipping. It's perfect, new.
PM me if you want it.

Dean
Thank you.
Let me have a couple days if you can.
This particular lantern is at the farm and I wont get to it till then. (We rent it out and have guests till the end of the weekend)
This lantern already has a bad valve assembly. And because of that, I'm not sure what else.
I bought this with a clam shell case and the lantern looked pristine. But now it's just costing me.
Majicwrench
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#13

Post by Majicwrench »

Heat
Keith
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#14

Post by MYN927 »

There might be some chances that the valve assembly had been threadlocked and sealed in place (Loctite, Permatex, etc).
Hitting a wrench with a hammer wouldn't work on that. Instead, you need some heat there. Fill the fount with water to prevent any plastics(pickup tube?) melting. Then heat the bung with a propane torch. While still hot, torque the valve with the wrench. Only exert the muscles on your forearm and wrist for that.
Well, its ripped anyway. You'd need a new fount.
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alciuffetelli
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#15

Post by alciuffetelli »

I didn't expect this either...
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outlawmws
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#16

Post by outlawmws »

That is the braze job that failed. I was expecting a torn steel fount.

But you aren't the OP...
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Gunhippie
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#17

Post by Gunhippie »

Here's how I do it:

Image

That usually gets the eccentric, burner and frame off, leaving the valve in the fount (on an Easy Lite, of course, there is no eccentric).

Removing the valve from the fount:

Image

That's a rubber strap-wrench (oil filter wrench) around the rim of the fount. Putting it on the rim reduces the chances of bending the side of the fount--more of a worry with brass than steel. I use my off-hand opposite the handle of the wrench to balance the forces so as not to bend the top of the fount.
Last edited by Gunhippie on Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#18

Post by Dmacp »

A little research effort will provide the methods commonly used to remove valve assemblies from the tanks with lower probabilities of damage to the tank and valve assembly.
yeah as long as it is a Coleman product. To remove the valve from certain AGM and Preway products is a crap shoot. They have solder in the threads plus a locking compound that is extremely effective. And the valve castings are thin, often the bungs are soldered in (from the inside).

I had a little trouble removing the valve from a 275. But most Coleman valves come out with hand pressure alone, the fount being inverted and clamped in a vise. Just turn it like a wheel.
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campinut
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#19

Post by campinut »

Appears we have a new member in 2021...Welcome, BejornBee..🤣😁😎

Image
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#20

Post by Deanofid »

alciuffetelli wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:06 pm I didn't expect this either...
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition....
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#21

Post by curtludwig »

BjornBee wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:06 pm
I just watched a video of a guy with an impact drill and he used a socket coming down over the valve assembly.
Of course his broke right apart. (like it was loosened previously) LOL.
Is that the way to go?
I'd guess that guy was me. ;)

The electric impact was always a crapshoot, sometimes it'd spin them right out, sometimes forget about it. Now I've got a proper air impact gun. File this under "You're coming out of there one way or the other."

For the fount that tore you can say "I offered you the easy option..."
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JimL
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#22

Post by JimL »

BjornBee,

How about posting a picture of that fount you ripped apart in your bear hands.
-Jim

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BjornBee
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#23

Post by BjornBee »

JimL wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:24 pm BjornBee,

How about posting a picture of that fount you ripped apart in your bear hands.
I think you are giving me too much credit. "Ripped apart in my bare hands". LOL.
If you read my previous posts, I'm sure some of it had to do with the hammering, and the fact that it became cock-eyed and it was not centered.
Not sure the proper term, but I think while twisting it, I had too much pressure downwards on the side of the tank.

As for a pic, That wont happen. It still had some fuel in it that leaked everywhere.
I ripped off the cap and the plunger and told my son to throw it in a cardboard box that had rags in it.
And that unfortunately, went out in the trash unknown to me.
I dont live on the farm I own and rent out as a Vacation property.
So its been since last week since i have been there. And I asked my three teenagers if they threw out the box....and nobody fessed yup yet.

As for pics in the future, I'll keep this all in mind.
I've had several people look at my camera, and I have not found a way to get the bits down to 120 to post on here. (I have a iphone 11)
The last time someone questioned something I said, which was finding mantles made in Malta on my first lantern pick,
Tgarner01 was nice enough to take the pic from me and crop it down and was able to post it here on the forum.
I think it would have been nice to have had a pic.
But if its just simply cause you don't believe me, which I'm sensing, I don't care about that.
Last edited by BjornBee on Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#24

Post by BjornBee »

curtludwig wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:42 pm
BjornBee wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:06 pm
I just watched a video of a guy with an impact drill and he used a socket coming down over the valve assembly.
Of course his broke right apart. (like it was loosened previously) LOL.
Is that the way to go?
I'd guess that guy was me. ;)

The electric impact was always a crapshoot, sometimes it'd spin them right out, sometimes forget about it. Now I've got a proper air impact gun. File this under "You're coming out of there one way or the other."

For the fount that tore you can say "I offered you the easy option..."
What name do you use on the videos?
I tried to go back and look for the same video, but only thing that pops up are some from Wiggys Wilderness that I have watched.
And I cant find the one with the impact drill coming over the top.
That's not you is it?
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Tgarner01
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#25

Post by Tgarner01 »

BjornBee wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:08 am
curtludwig wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:42 pm
BjornBee wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:06 pm
I just watched a video of a guy with an impact drill and he used a socket coming down over the valve assembly.
Of course his broke right apart. (like it was loosened previously) LOL.
Is that the way to go?
I'd guess that guy was me. ;)

The electric impact was always a crapshoot, sometimes it'd spin them right out, sometimes forget about it. Now I've got a proper air impact gun. File this under "You're coming out of there one way or the other."

For the fount that tore you can say "I offered you the easy option..."
What name do you use on the videos?
I tried to go back and look for the same video, but only thing that pops up are some from Wiggys Wilderness that I have watched.
And I cant find the one with the impact drill coming over the top.
That's not you is it?
Curt's youtube channel link is in his signature line if you're interested in looking him up.
Toby Garner, from SW Missouri
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BjornBee
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#26

Post by BjornBee »

Tgarner01 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:28 am
BjornBee wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:08 am
curtludwig wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:42 pm
BjornBee wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:06 pm
I just watched a video of a guy with an impact drill and he used a socket coming down over the valve assembly.
Of course his broke right apart. (like it was loosened previously) LOL.
Is that the way to go?
I'd guess that guy was me. ;)

The electric impact was always a crapshoot, sometimes it'd spin them right out, sometimes forget about it. Now I've got a proper air impact gun. File this under "You're coming out of there one way or the other."

For the fount that tore you can say "I offered you the easy option..."
What name do you use on the videos?
I tried to go back and look for the same video, but only thing that pops up are some from Wiggys Wilderness that I have watched.
And I cant find the one with the impact drill coming over the top.
That's not you is it?
Curt's youtube channel link is in his signature line if you're interested in looking him up.
Thank you.
I didn't even see that.
I guess he is not Wiggy! LOL

I did just watch "How to remove a valve without any tools"...very good!
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Jeepstircrazy
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#27

Post by Jeepstircrazy »

Gunhippie's first picture in post #17 above saved the day for me this afternoon. I have seen his picture on another thread or two but didn't give it that much attention cause I have done well with a vice and the same rubber strap wrench. But today I tackled my first QL 427 and I was stumped... then I remembered this picture of his and voila! Works like a charm....Thanks Timm! :cf_howdyhat:
Wayne signing off...

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curtludwig
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#28

Post by curtludwig »

BjornBee wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:08 am What name do you use on the videos?
I tried to go back and look for the same video, but only thing that pops up are some from Wiggys Wilderness that I have watched.
And I cant find the one with the impact drill coming over the top.
That's not you is it?
The one with the impact gun (its a 1/2" impact driver, not one of the little drill things) was the 200A rebuild video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7ijUgivUFQ its at about 2:10.
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Dubblbubbl
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#29

Post by Dubblbubbl »

Thinking out loud....

Can this be fixed by brazing the bung back on?

Wonder if the valve assembly was rocked back and forth while trying to remove it, causing the brazing to fail.

One thing’s for sure, the gasoila did it’s job......
Rob in NC
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alciuffetelli
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#30

Post by alciuffetelli »

Dubblbubbl wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:40 am Thinking out loud....

Can this be fixed by brazing the bung back on?

Wonder if the valve assembly was rocked back and forth while trying to remove it, causing the brazing to fail.

One thing’s for sure, the gasoila did it’s job......
I think you're confusing the original post with the one I made in post #15...the entire bung with valve assembly came right out of a 7/52 fount for a 220E (that's my picture on the workbench). This happened using an electric impact gun with the fount locked in a vise. You can see there are no dents, or mis-shapen areas indicating rough treatment...this is a first for me. It also looked strange in other ways...I would think there was some sort of "flange" to the bung in the fount, but this doesn't have it at all. In a strange follow up, I was able to find another 7/52 fount to replace this one, and this has now become one of my favorite burners.
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Dubblbubbl
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Re: I didn't expect this....Fount ripped apart.

#31

Post by Dubblbubbl »

alciuffetelli wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:24 pm]
...
...
I think you're confusing the original post with the one I made in post #15...the entire bung with valve assembly came right out of a 7/52 fount for a 220E (that's.
...
...
Yep, I did confuse your pic with the OP’s problem.....good to know that wasn’t caused by the wrench in a vise method.
Rob in NC
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