Broken valve stem? No problem!

Post your tech questions here, lots of knowledge available.
Post Reply
User avatar
dbosch
Colemanaholic
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:09 am

Broken valve stem? No problem!

#1

Post by dbosch »

So I took it as a personal challenge. A 236 valve stem with the splined end broken off. Could I recreate the end?

Turned down the end on the lathe, added the #4-40 threaded hole and then the fun began.

The end has 13 splines. I measured the circumference of the 3 jaw and marked it for 13 indexes. I don't have an indexing head and anyway, 13 splines is every 27.7degrees. I set up a cutter insert sideways in the tool post and slowly broached the spline set using the cross slide.
IMG_2603.jpg
IMG_2602.jpg
IMG_2601.jpg
63581953527__D8FDF7E1-68DD-4706-AA7B-C68646DA7E1A.jpg
63581944498__4CAF140C-B1D9-40DE-89EF-B8C2AEBB47F6.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
User avatar
Tgarner01
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 4916
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:47 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#2

Post by Tgarner01 »

Looks good Dan! I wondered how a guy would go about broaching those splines. Thanks for sharing 👍
Toby Garner, from SW Missouri
ICCC #1939
User avatar
gwillmot
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#3

Post by gwillmot »

Very impressive, although the description of how it was done was as clear to me as if spoken by a Wookie ........ glad some of us are so talented!
Still Crazy After All These Years


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark 16:16





           
User avatar
outlawmws
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 3147
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:51 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#4

Post by outlawmws »

Well done! I like your simple approach to cutting the splines!
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


User avatar
Deanofid
Moderator
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#5

Post by Deanofid »

Neat, Dan. Atlas?
Dean -Midnight Kerosene Ritualist--Deans Machine:  Deansmachine.com  
ICCC #1220.   275 commiseration #0018.
"In Him was life, and His life was the Light of men."  John 1:4
User avatar
dbosch
Colemanaholic
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:09 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#6

Post by dbosch »

Yessir. The later 6 inch one with the roller bearings.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
User avatar
JLush
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:17 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#7

Post by JLush »

Well done sir! My father did some amazing work on a 6" Atlas so it's nice to see that the machinist spirit is still alive.
"Catch on fire with enthusiasm and people will come for miles to watch you burn"

...On the lookout for a 3/61...
User avatar
Deanofid
Moderator
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#8

Post by Deanofid »

One of the nicest lathes Atlas made was the 6" with the Timkin roller headstock. I have a plain bearing one that I used for some years, but it had to be put into storage to make some room in the shop, mainly because machines were starting to bump into each other. I don't know of any other real lathe that will cut more thread counts as the little Atlas until you get up to Monarch EE territory.
Dean -Midnight Kerosene Ritualist--Deans Machine:  Deansmachine.com  
ICCC #1220.   275 commiseration #0018.
"In Him was life, and His life was the Light of men."  John 1:4
User avatar
mgmlvks
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1777
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:50 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#9

Post by mgmlvks »

N I C E . I could only hope to have that vision . Thanks for sharing!
Mike, ICCC member #1156, Slant Saver Group #011, 275 Appreciation Syndicate #0215, FAS #20 - Confusing Future Generations of Collectors One Lantern at a Time
"In order for the light to shine so brightly, the darkness must be present"Francis Bacon
(and - for those who have asked - avatar from postcard and says "Coming Home by Rail".  https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4595/2743 ... be00_z.jpg  
MYN927
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:31 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#10

Post by MYN927 »

That was a great job done. I was pondering earlier how can I make a 13-splined hole in a brass insert that could fit into the splined valve stem.
JD37B
Junior Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:31 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#11

Post by JD37B »

Very clever! Thanks for sharing.
User avatar
CaptainFantastic
Administrator
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 5:38 pm
Title: Coleman Helvetica (CH)

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#12

Post by CaptainFantastic »

I really like it when you talented guys share this stuff. Amazes me, it really does. I wish I had 1/100th the skill or knowledge, and the equipment, to do this stuff.
Ian - Looking for these dates 7/82, 7/92, 8/93, 9/03, 11/05, 5/17
ICCC #1480 | ICCC co-webmaster
Unqualified novice Elbonian supporting the CCF site
Dmacp
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2879
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:56 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#13

Post by Dmacp »

that's a neat trick. I will have to try to remember it.
Dan
ICCC member #604
MYN927
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:31 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#14

Post by MYN927 »

There aren't any 13-splined stems of similar diameter that I could find on any other stuffs besides the Coleman valves.
Faucet valve stems are too large.
Pretty close would be the imperial 12-splined bit.
Looks like there's no escaping the custom broaching task.
User avatar
outlawmws
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 3147
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:51 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#15

Post by outlawmws »

Depending on the handle material; you could grind a custom single pointer from HHS?
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


User avatar
dbosch
Colemanaholic
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:09 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#16

Post by dbosch »

High speed steel? Sure as long as the material being cut is softer than the cutter.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
User avatar
outlawmws
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 3147
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:51 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#17

Post by outlawmws »

I did state "depending on the materiel" and HSS is great for most things, so why not? Carbide and other cutter materials are very good, particularly for extended life and speeds of cut, but unless you are dealing with extremely hard materials, HSS does the job.
[Logo%20Outlaw-half] 
Coleman Blue's 243's #341 - 275 Appreciation Syndicate member 0242
FAS #001 Confusing Future Generations of Collectors, One Lantern at a Time!

“A Human Being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, give orders, take orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook  a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.”            - Lazarus Long


User avatar
Deanofid
Moderator
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#18

Post by Deanofid »

When I make these kind of things I usually use a small center drill or very small countersink spinning in the mill and index with my rotary table. Both of those tooling items are made from HSS. Plenty good for anything up to mild steel, and they are quite inexpensive.

Dan had to do it a little harder way, but got great results. Yes, HSS will work in the way he did it too, and there is less chance of it breaking if you get into materials harder than brass or aluminum. Carbide is not likely to break on the cutting stroke, (going from right to left as seen in Dan's pics) but could break on the reverse stroke that returns the tool back to its starting position if dragged back in the cut. Carbide is that brittle that a little bit of drag backwards against the under side of the cutting edge can pop off little chips on the top of the tool, (the cutting edge). It is a very superior cutting material, and will actually cut HSS, but it has to have the pressure of the cut put only on the actual cutting edge if the tool is to last. With HSS, or even hardened high carbon steel, you don't have this situation, but you don't have the tool life in hard materials, either.
Dean -Midnight Kerosene Ritualist--Deans Machine:  Deansmachine.com  
ICCC #1220.   275 commiseration #0018.
"In Him was life, and His life was the Light of men."  John 1:4
User avatar
StanDahl
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#19

Post by StanDahl »

Wow! I'm glad someone can do that, I'll be sending you a couple of those soon! :cf_heeheehee:
John - ICCC Petty Bureaucrat #CMLXII...
User avatar
dbosch
Colemanaholic
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:09 am

Re: Broken valve stem? No problem!

#20

Post by dbosch »

The process is somewhat slow. I took 0.005in bites in each groove until I went around all 13 grooves. I probably went around the shaft 6 times (6x13=78 cuts). Once I got into a rhythm, it wasn't that bad. I should have slowed up and sneaked up on the fit at the end, but the slip-fit of the spline on the valve wheel was identical to a stock Coleman valve. I got lucky. Trying to hit a tolerance while taking a larger cut never works out as you think it will.

The carbide cutter is just a stock 60degree cutter. I could have ground a narrower cutter but this one was close enough. I need to play with this some more.
Dan B.  ICCC #100
The Texas Dust Bowl

Faith is not about everything turning out okay; faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
Post Reply