Milspec help

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Madcap
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Milspec help

#1

Post by Madcap »

I'm a new guy and have a 1952 Coleman with a badly stuck fitting. I've tried to ID the particular part but can't find anything so had to take photos. I've tried penetrant, heat and no luck at all. What do I need to loosen this without damage to the fitting it's attached to or the fount?
Thanks much for any help.
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Re: Milspec help

#2

Post by mcdugal2 »

Put the jamb nut from the generator back on to protect the threads grab some one to hold the tank and a big adjustable wrench. Depending on how tight it is the valve might unscrew first, then you can put the valve in a vice and use the big wrench to get the two apart...
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Re: Milspec help

#3

Post by Optimus45 »

If you can get a 9/16 wrench on the generator angle fitting between the top and bottom burner rails. It helps if you have a cheap wrench that you can put a slight bend to. If you have a vise you can put the wrench in the vise and grab the fount and twist the fount. You'll get more torque that way.
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Re: Milspec help

#4

Post by Madcap »

OK, both good ideas - I'll give them a try and get back...thanks, appreciate it.
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Re: Milspec help

#5

Post by Madcap »

Tried turning it with large adjustable wrench and it won't budge a bit. I'm afraid it may twist the fount if I force it any more.
I have a 228E with the same problem..... I'll try some heat again.
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Re: Milspec help

#6

Post by holliswood »

Madcap wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:53 pm Tried turning it with large adjustable wrench and it won't budge a bit. I'm afraid it may twist the fount if I force it any more.
I have a 228E with the same problem..... I'll try some heat again.
I’m still somewhat iffy about putting to much heat on things myself. It’ll come out eventually.
Heat and quench the hell out of it!
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Re: Milspec help

#7

Post by Madcap »

I tried concentrating the heat as directly as possible on the sealant and it finally let loose but was seriously tight. Unfortunately the fitting got buggered up and I'll need to find a replacement.

I just picked another one today (Coleman 1952 )that's very rusty but haven't messed with it yet..... ha stay tuned! :lol:

Thanks buddy -

edit: what's the name of that part ? I'd like to find another one -
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Re: Milspec help

#8

Post by Optimus45 »

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Re: Milspec help

#9

Post by mcdugal2 »

Madcap wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:06 am I tried concentrating the heat as directly as possible on the sealant and it finally let loose but was seriously tight. Unfortunately the fitting got buggered up and I'll need to find a replacement.

I just picked another one today (Coleman 1952 )that's very rusty but haven't messed with it yet..... ha stay tuned! :lol:

Thanks buddy -

edit: what's the name of that part ? I'd like to find another one -
I did tell you to put the jamb nut back on to protect the threads...
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Re: Milspec help

#10

Post by brokenmantle »

try dollar general penetrant/lubricant. it has not let me down yet on anything.
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Re: Milspec help

#11

Post by Madcap »

mcdugal2 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:51 am
Madcap wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:06 am I tried concentrating the heat as directly as possible on the sealant and it finally let loose but was seriously tight. Unfortunately the fitting got buggered up and I'll need to find a replacement.

I just picked another one today (Coleman 1952 )that's very rusty but haven't messed with it yet..... ha stay tuned! :lol:

Thanks buddy -

edit: what's the name of that part ? I'd like to find another one -
I did tell you to put the jamb nut back on to protect the threads...
Yeah, I put the jam nut on but may have been too late....I should have known better and thought of it myself before :roll:
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Re: Milspec help

#12

Post by Madcap »

Madcap wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:29 am
mcdugal2 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:51 am
Madcap wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:06 am I tried concentrating the heat as directly as possible on the sealant and it finally let loose but was seriously tight. Unfortunately the fitting got buggered up and I'll need to find a replacement.

I just picked another one today (Coleman 1952 )that's very rusty but haven't messed with it yet..... ha stay tuned! :lol:

Thanks buddy -

edit: what's the name of that part ? I'd like to find another one -
I did tell you to put the jamb nut back on to protect the threads...
Yeah, I put the jam nut on but may have been too late....I should have known better and thought of it myself before :roll:

The rusty one came apart without hardly any trouble -
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252 Frame Question

#13

Post by Madcap »

What's other hole for on the floor of the 252 frame...?
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Re: Milspec help

#14

Post by Madcap »

Just want to add the lantern is now completely reassembled. It wouldn't hold pressure at first but the fuel cap gasket was bad. After that was changed out, pressure seems good for now. I'll check it later and hope to test fire it after dark.
If someone could let me know what the other hole is for on bottom of the frame I'd appreciate it.
Thanks all for the help so far...
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Re: Milspec help

#15

Post by macwacs »

Dang it now I have to go look and see if I have any with the large hole. If I do I never paid atention to it or thought about it.
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Re: Milspec help

#16

Post by TSPORT »

My 65 Coleman Milspec has one big rectangular opening, not 2 holes. Also has the 4 piece glass, not the 1 piece globe. 2nd hole because same frame as 220 lanterns, air tube goes down outer hole, valve through center hole on the 220s. Look at parts diagram for a 220 and you’ll see what I mean.
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Re: Milspec help

#17

Post by Madcap »

TSPORT wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:08 am My 65 Coleman Milspec has one big rectangular opening, not 2 holes. Also has the 4 piece glass, not the 1 piece globe. 2nd hole because same frame as 220 lanterns, air tube goes down outer hole, valve through center hole on the 220s. Look at parts diagram for a 220 and you’ll see what I mean.
I suspected that may be the case but wasn't sure if maybe someone changed it out. I have a 220 and 228 and they both have the same frames. Two other 252's I have must have the holes covered so never noticed. That would explain the apparent intended location for the tip cleaner too on the 252 frame.

The lighting ceremony was disappointing. After replacing a generator it settled down somewhat and seemed OK but eventually it dimmed and was never real bright....added pressure made no difference....see the two last photos. It started out sputtering for quite a while but settled down then became very dim. Maybe there's another leak or something's plugged up. I'll check the pressure later or tomorrow morning and go from there. My first 252 performed flawlessly so I thought, why not again? :lol:
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Re: Milspec help

#18

Post by TSPORT »

Pull the tip on the generator and see if it’s partially clogged. Could happen even on a new one. It’s a very tiny orifice on the Milspec
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Re: Milspec help

#19

Post by Madcap »

TSPORT wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:40 am Pull the tip on the generator and see if it’s partially clogged. Could happen even on a new one. It’s a very tiny orifice on the Milspec
OK, thanks ....I'll check it out. It did hold pressure overnight so I think that one good thing.

edit: IT WORKED....it must have been partially plugged up even though I'd cleaned it prior. Anyway she seems fully operational now with a good, consistent, bright burn.

Next project will be another Coleman 252 dated 1956 that's in more challenging condition.

Thanks for the help -
Last edited by Madcap on Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Milspec help

#20

Post by TSPORT »

Madcap wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:11 pm
TSPORT wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:40 am Pull the tip on the generator and see if it’s partially clogged. Could happen even on a new one. It’s a very tiny orifice on the Milspec
OK, thanks ....I'll check it out. It did hold pressure overnight so I think that one good thing.

edit: IT WORKED....it must have been partially plugged up even though I'd cleaned it prior. Anyway she seems fully operational now with a good, consistent, bright burn.
Thanks for the help.
Glad to hear it. Roar on!
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Re: Milspec help

#21

Post by Optimus45 »

Sometimes you need to clean them several times. The generator is aluminum and oxidizes Inside easy when not used for a long time. Then when you start using them the flakes start coming loose and clog that tiny orifice.
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Re: Milspec help

#22

Post by Madcap »

Optimus45 wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:59 pm Sometimes you need to clean them several times. The generator is aluminum and oxidizes Inside easy when not used for a long time. Then when you start using them the flakes start coming loose and clog that tiny orifice.
That's more useful information to add to my mil spec learning experience....thanks.

I'm working on another 1952 dated 252 tryiig to remove rust on the frame and burner. Both holes are open on the bottom of this burner instead of one having a plug in it like my others. How will that affect the the operation?
Thanks again -
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Re: Milspec help

#23

Post by Chucker »

Do you mean both holes on the air tubes being unplugged?

Some run well with or without one air tube plugged. You may not even notice a difference.

I've assumed for years that if I need to remove the air tube plug, and it runs better, it's because the lantern is running rich, likely an enlarged gen orifice.

Still, nothing of this earth is 100% true so experiment, you'll see what works for that lantern.
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Re: Milspec help

#24

Post by Madcap »

Thanks Chuck, I think that sounds reasonable. I have three other mil specs now, two Colman 252's and an SMP and they all had a plug in one of the tubes. I only fired the two Colemans so I'm curious what difference it may make if I can get this one to work. It seems to have a faulty check valve so will try making a valve removal tool.

Photos are of the current 252 project. It wasn't in the best condition but had some original accessories including an original US round globe and nice vent.
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Re: Milspec help

#25

Post by holliswood »

Madcap, every NOS generator for these that I’ve bought has had some goop on the generator tip. I’d assume it’s to keep the innards on that end of the generator from getting moisture in it.

Good to hear you got it running at peak performance! If any of them have the plug in the bottom of the air tube and they’re running good, leave the plug in there!
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Re: Milspec help

#26

Post by Madcap »

Thanks Fred - The original generator did have some red rubberized stuff very similar to what seen in aircraft silicone sealant. It was put that aside after cleaning it off - you may notice it in the earlier photo.

The operating lanterns with plugs won't be taken out.

The current 252 project is on hold due to a check valve problem and a replacement generator seat from OCP. I feel pretty confident it'll light up - eventually.

Best -
Last edited by Madcap on Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Milspec help

#27

Post by holliswood »

Madcap wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:54 am Thanks Fred - One generator did have some red rubberized stuff very similar to what seen in aircraft silicone sealant. It was put that aside for a spare after cleaning it off - you may notice it in the photo.

The operating lanterns with plugs won't be taken out.

The current 252 project is on hold due to a check valve problem and a replacement generator seat from OCP. I feel pretty confident it'll light up - eventually.

Best -
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Re: Milspec help

#28

Post by Madcap »

Yes sir... so true.
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Re: Milspec help

#29

Post by mcdugal2 »

The other hole in the base plate is a hold over from the 220 frame design from Coleman. At one point the frames were the same eventually the they rotated the base plate 90 degrees from the original 220 design and then they moved the location of the lighting holes. Eventually the design changed some more to make it even easier to take apart. As you will notice on the SMP you wouldn't even have to remove that angled fitting to get the top of the lantern off, just loosen the nut, slide the burner frame off, rotate the main frame a little to line up the slot with the fitting and off it comes...
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Re: Milspec help

#30

Post by Madcap »

Always interested in more information...thanks!
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Re: Milspec help

#31

Post by Madcap »

Replacement gen seat arv today so I'll be getting back to work on that 252 - the frame and burner are soaking in Evaporust for a while for now.
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Re: Milspec help

#32

Post by Madcap »

Hey mil spec-ers - This 252 was reassembled with a another gen seat that threaded in OK but there's a serious leak around the base of the seat and fuel pick up. I thought everything seemed torqued down well so I'm not sure what else could cause it. I used some blue locktite on it as well. Maybe that wasn't the right thing to do. Anyway, It's probably something simple but I need some help and advice.

Thanks -
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Re: Milspec help

#33

Post by macwacs »

If it is really leaking from the threads I would anneal the brass fitting and try to get another turn on it,
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Re: Milspec help

#34

Post by Madcap »

To clarify, if the fitting is heated to red hot it should then be quenched in water...correct?
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Re: Milspec help

#35

Post by macwacs »

It does not need to be red hot. Only about 300 th 400 degrees. Just enough to make the water sizzle. Maybe do it twice for assurance.
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Re: Milspec help

#36

Post by holliswood »

I’ve had the replacement generator seat do that on one of mine (leak). Was the threads in the top of the valve clean and were mineral spirits or DA used to make sure no residue was left on the threads of the valve and generator seat? Both sets of threads have to be totally clean and free of residue? With that being done, and waiting the full 24 hours, it should work.
I like using a few Q-Tips to remove excess sealant before it gets tacky as well. I’ve heard leaving excess sealant results in the sealant drying out to far from where it needs to.
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Re: Milspec help

#37

Post by Madcap »

RMW -Not sure how do you tell when the temp is 300-400deg..... I guess I guess I'll heat and quench it and see if it sizzles.

Fred - the threads are completely clean - with nothing on the threads - wire wheel took care of that. What reason do you wait 24 hours for?

I'll try the annealing trick and get back.

Thanks for your help -
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Re: Milspec help

#38

Post by Madcap »

OK, I think the threads are annealed - so do yo guys recommend using any thread sealant? Frank at Old Town Coleman says he has never used any and never had a problem. I noticed "King Coleman" on You Tube used blue sealant that I assumed was blue Locktite. Both of these guys, know what they're doing and I trust their experience. What's your thinking?
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Re: Milspec help

#39

Post by macwacs »

My self I do not use it or any other such as Teflon tape. Just go naked.
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Re: Milspec help

#40

Post by Madcap »

Just got in from another light up. It doesn't seem to be leaking anymore at the base of the stem so the annealing must have worked but there's a leak around the generator flare nut. I snugged it up slightly more but it still leaked. The surface of the stem fitting look good but generator nut looks like one of the threads could be buggered but I'm not sure if that makes a difference as long as the fit between the nut and generator is tight. What do you guys think...?

Would that flare nut be a common hardware pipe thread nut?
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Re: Milspec help

#41

Post by macwacs »

I dont think it is a common fitting. Check with our host Mike at Old Coleman Parts @ banner at the top I think he has them in stock. Sometimes you have to wiggle the generator as you tighten the nut down might need to do it a couple of times to get a good seat. Once ou get the hang of these things they are awsome.
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Re: Milspec help

#42

Post by Madcap »

Mike has them I was hoping to save the time and money of ordering one. If I need to of course I will but I'll try your suggestions and see what happens....thanks

edit: just tried it again and it's still leaking around the gen nut and stem.
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Re: Milspec help

#43

Post by holliswood »

Waiting 24 hours gives the sealant time to fully cure 👍🏻
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Re: Milspec help

#44

Post by Madcap »

holliswood wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:14 am Waiting 24 hours gives the sealant time to fully cure 👍🏻
The sealant - OK, thanks. Anyway that part stopped leaking after annealing it but the flare fitting is leaking now. Both areas must have been leaking before and I couldn't tell.
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Re: Milspec help

#45

Post by arizonacamper »

Check the flare fitting on the generator. make sure there isn't a nick or a deformity. That could possibly cause a leak also check and make sure that the flare is flat and not warped or twisted.
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Re: Milspec help

#46

Post by Madcap »

arizonacamper wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:59 am Check the flare fitting on the generator. make sure there isn't a nick or a deformity. That could possibly cause a leak also check and make sure that the flare is flat and not warped or twisted.
Shawn
The fitting looks clean and good to go but threads on the nut look suspicious - as possibly noted in the photo....
what do you think? That's the only thing I can figure, so ordered another from Mike.

Thanks
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Re: Milspec help

#47

Post by arizonacamper »

When it comes to Fire and Flame I always go by the saying "when in doubt change it out"
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I.C.C.C. #2043

Looking for any lanterns or stoves dated 5/63 or 1/72
Cajuncook1
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:05 pm

Re: Milspec help

#48

Post by Cajuncook1 »

Do you have tap and die set? Might be able to run the appropriate thread tap to clean up the threads in that nut?

Just thinking out loud.

Cheers,

Cajun
Cheers,

Cajuncook1
:cf_beercheers:
Madcap
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:06 am

Re: Milspec help

#49

Post by Madcap »

Good advice on changing it out - no way it could function the way it was. Another nut is ordered.

I have some taps but no the right one -

Soon as the replacement nut is fitted we'll give it another shot....till then, thanks all for the help so far.

Dick
Dick
Mill Spec-Ops #0345
International POSSUM Brotherhood Chapter 11
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Madcap
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:06 am

Re: Milspec help

#50

Post by Madcap »

The replacement nut and generator stem continue to leak. Mike and OCP sent me two seats and just noticed the flare threads don't seem the same. I tried the two nuts including my original and the one from Mike, and the threads don't match one of the seats. The correct matching threads on the generator stem, nut and seat still leak and the threads all look good. Something ain't right...

Also the check valve was removed, cleaned and reinstalled but when a finger held over it still pushes back out.
Dick
Mill Spec-Ops #0345
International POSSUM Brotherhood Chapter 11
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
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