Old Style Filler Cap Issue

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burnt bacon
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Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#1

Post by burnt bacon »

Just picked up a very nice 413F, 1 64 You can hear the cap leaking air after pumping a bit. The screw is not fully screwed in, and even with the cap tightened down as much as possible, the screw will not tighten/untighten...it's stuck. When able to turn the screw it appears the disc is rotating. What to do?

My thoughts are: soak in WD-40 and try again in a week, if successful maybe get a new disc from OCP; throw it out and buy the new style replacement, try and find an old style replacement that functions, preferably in red, or green and call it a Christmas stove... 8-) I'm sure heat would ruin the red paint.

I doubt this issue is unheard of, any thoughts appreciated, thanks...
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SteveRetherford
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#2

Post by SteveRetherford »

slap a gasket on fuel bung and put your cap on , the gasket will fill the void so you have enough friction to undo the screw .
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burnt bacon
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#3

Post by burnt bacon »

SteveRetherford wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:19 am slap a gasket on fuel bung and put your cap on , the gasket will fill the void so you have enough friction to undo the screw .
Thanks, would that be the same as adding an additional gasket to he underside of the cap?
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#4

Post by bngreenchev »

Like Steve said get some gaskets put one over the fuel bung put the cap back on and should be able to unscrew the assembly, make sure the old gasket is gone if it's not burn it out with a torch and pick out the charred remains and install a new gasket. I usually order 10 or so at a time, and if you want you could try some penetrating oil while you wait for the new gaskets.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#5

Post by JimL »

>> What to do?

Be nice to your other lanterns and stoves and maybe one of them will loan you a fuel cap to use in the meantime.

Just because the insert isn't coming out and making it a simple replacement, you can always dig out the old gasket and get a new one in there. You can be concerned about it in 40 or so years when it may again need replacing.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#6

Post by Tgarner01 »

Image
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#7

Post by zoomkat »

"The screw is not fully screwed in, and even with the cap tightened down as much as possible, the screw will not tighten/untighten...it's stuck. When able to turn the screw it appears the disc is rotating. What to do?"

The screw only needs to be tight in the cap gasket insert and is probably not intended to snug the insert up with the cap. The screw is probably bottomed out in the insert, which is not an issue. The cap should be free to rotate while the insert is stationary.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#8

Post by JimL »

Folks, unless I'm reading it wrong, he can't remove the screw to remove the insert and change the gasket.

To the OP, get and try some penetrating oil if you can. Although anything's possible, I suggest keeping expectations very low for using WD-40 as a penetrating oil.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#9

Post by SteveRetherford »

ya , it doesnt really need to be TIGHT............. BUT if when trying to tighten your screw you have other issues , a tight screw in this condition wont help anything this cap will leak preassure as fast as you put it in , take the cap off n start over . lets see
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#10

Post by zoomkat »

To remove the stuck screw, I'd tighten the cap down tight enough so the insert does not turn, possibly gently with a pair of plyers or similar, then use an appropriately sized screwdriver with a pair of vice grips similar to below, to *carefully* apply controlled loosening torque to the screw without damaging the screw head.
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burnt bacon
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#11

Post by burnt bacon »

bngreenchev wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:35 am Like Steve said get some gaskets put one over the fuel bung put the cap back on and should be able to unscrew the assembly, make sure the old gasket is gone if it's not burn it out with a torch and pick out the charred remains and install a new gasket. I usually order 10 or so at a time, and if you want you could try some penetrating oil while you wait for the new gaskets.
https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product ... =23&page=1
Thanks, will try this...I do have some spares because I do like to retain the old style caps.
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burnt bacon
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#12

Post by burnt bacon »

JimL wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:43 am >> What to do?

Be nice to your other lanterns and stoves and maybe one of them will loan you a fuel cap to use in the meantime.

Just because the insert isn't coming out and making it a simple replacement, you can always dig out the old gasket and get a new one in there. You can be concerned about it in 40 or so years when it may again need replacing.
Yup, but the stuck screw bugs me.
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burnt bacon
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#13

Post by burnt bacon »

Tgarner01 wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:52 am Image
Great pic...look forward to doing this.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#14

Post by burnt bacon »

zoomkat wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:58 am "The screw is not fully screwed in, and even with the cap tightened down as much as possible, the screw will not tighten/untighten...it's stuck. When able to turn the screw it appears the disc is rotating. What to do?"

The screw only needs to be tight in the cap gasket insert and is probably not intended to snug the insert up with the cap. The screw is probably bottomed out in the insert, which is not an issue. The cap should be free to rotate while the insert is stationary.
Sorry, I knew that and forgot, thanks for reminding me.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#15

Post by burnt bacon »

JimL wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:01 am Folks, unless I'm reading it wrong, he can't remove the screw to remove the insert and change the gasket.

To the OP, get and try some penetrating oil if you can. Although anything's possible, I suggest keeping expectations very low for using WD-40 as a penetrating oil.
+1

Years ago, I bought a can of Kroil because I was working on some firearms, used very little of it. It's billed as a substance that 'creeps'. They can say that again. Checked it after a long while and the darn thing emptied half of itself onto the shelf...LOL
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burnt bacon
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#16

Post by burnt bacon »

zoomkat wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:17 am To remove the stuck screw, I'd tighten the cap down tight enough so the insert does not turn, possibly gently with a pair of plyers or similar, then use an appropriately sized screwdriver with a pair of vice grips similar to below, to *carefully* apply controlled loosening torque to the screw without damaging the screw head.
Thanks for the idea, but I already buggered it up a little bit, not too bad though.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#17

Post by burnt bacon »

Very much appreciate all the comments.
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mcdugal2
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#18

Post by mcdugal2 »

Roland, has a little clamp he made that will immobilize the insert so the screw can be broken free..
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#19

Post by pagrey »

I use an impact screw driver. It gets them out with very little damage to the screw. Using slow deliberate force almost always buggers the slot for me but impact just pops them loose. Next time maybe.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#20

Post by Gunhippie »

I have one three-piece cap that the screw has become one with the insert. I've tried everything suggested and then some to no avail.

Mind you, this is out of at least 100 that I've taken down and replaced the gasket.

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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#21

Post by zoomkat »

"I have one three-piece cap that the screw has become one with the insert. I've tried everything suggested and then some to no avail."

Which parts of the processes you have tried failed?
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#22

Post by Gunhippie »

All of them. Heat. Penetrating oil and heat. Impact driver. Impact driver, penetrating oil and heat. I filed teeth on the filler bung of a cracked fount and tightened the cap down with a pair of Channel Locs and leather belt. More heat, oil and impact. I tried it all, and it's still one piece.

Fortunately, I find real beaters that I sometimes buy just for parts--globe and three-piece filler cap being high on the list, so I have spares.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#23

Post by SteveRetherford »

in part , when i screw a 3 piece cap together i sure dont make it TIGHT , just tight is good enough if you know what i mean , i put stuff together so its comes apart easy next time .
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#24

Post by Gunhippie »

As a Boy Scout, i was taught that once the cap was on and finger-tight, I had to grab a screwdriver and tighten the screw to make a seal. Of course, not being a good, obedient Boy Scout, I took a look at the way the cap worked and decided this was BS....
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#25

Post by zoomkat »

"All of them. Heat. Penetrating oil and heat. Impact driver. Impact driver, penetrating oil and heat. I filed teeth on the filler bung of a cracked fount and tightened the cap down with a pair of Channel Locs and leather belt. More heat, oil and impact. I tried it all, and it's still one piece."

Is the head of the screw still intact to where torque can be applied via a screwdriver? If so, I'd quickly heat the cap insert with a torch, then using leather gloves and plyers, screw the cap on the tank. Then apply torque using a screwdriver/vice grip similar to the picture I posted. Worse case, the head might wring off. Even then, the cap and insert probably can still can be used with a little tinkering. All the screw does is keep the insert with the cap.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#26

Post by rob_pontius »

I agree with paul above. Get one of those impact drivers that you push in and it clicks once pressed in. The quick jolt should break the screw loose without causing damage if the cap is still on the tank.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#27

Post by burnt bacon »

Gunhippie wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:08 pmI took a look at the way the cap worked and decided this was BS....
yup
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#28

Post by burnt bacon »

If I have to ruin the assembly, defeats the whole effort, at least for me.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#29

Post by Gunhippie »

zoomkat wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:02 pm "All of them. Heat. Penetrating oil and heat. Impact driver. Impact driver, penetrating oil and heat. I filed teeth on the filler bung of a cracked fount and tightened the cap down with a pair of Channel Locs and leather belt. More heat, oil and impact. I tried it all, and it's still one piece."

Is the head of the screw still intact to where torque can be applied via a screwdriver? If so, I'd quickly heat the cap insert with a torch, then using leather gloves and plyers, screw the cap on the tank. Then apply torque using a screwdriver/vice grip similar to the picture I posted. Worse case, the head might wring off. Even then, the cap and insert probably can still can be used with a little tinkering. All the screw does is keep the insert with the cap.
It's a three-piece cap. I can find another. I keep it around to remind me to be humble.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#30

Post by Tgarner01 »

Gunhippie wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:28 am
zoomkat wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:02 pm "All of them. Heat. Penetrating oil and heat. Impact driver. Impact driver, penetrating oil and heat. I filed teeth on the filler bung of a cracked fount and tightened the cap down with a pair of Channel Locs and leather belt. More heat, oil and impact. I tried it all, and it's still one piece."

Is the head of the screw still intact to where torque can be applied via a screwdriver? If so, I'd quickly heat the cap insert with a torch, then using leather gloves and plyers, screw the cap on the tank. Then apply torque using a screwdriver/vice grip similar to the picture I posted. Worse case, the head might wring off. Even then, the cap and insert probably can still can be used with a little tinkering. All the screw does is keep the insert with the cap.
It's a three-piece cap. I can find another. I keep it around to remind me to be humble.
:cf_heeheehee: this is one of those projects I would spend 2 days on and many man hours "fixing" a $2 fuel cap... But I'm humble 😉
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#31

Post by Smudge »

I've encountered replacement gaskets that were too thin to seal (or maybe it was the insert). I guess I could have added a second gasket, but instead, I used an o-ring.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#32

Post by brokenmantle »

get some dollar general penetrating oil. this has yet to let me down.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#33

Post by Brassngas »

Make sure your cap is as tight as possible. Find or grind a screwdriver that fits snug to the screw slot, preferably a bit that is all steel so as to transfer all of it's energy. Then tap sharp and lightly a few times and retry the screw. Most times this will nock the corrosion loose in the threads. Just a little penetrating oil will help as well. Works very well. Good luck.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#34

Post by MYN927 »

If the stuck screw is really bothering you, just forget paint and execute the aggressive heat and quench treatment.
Heat it to dull red and plunge in cold water.
That should loosen up everything and burn out the old gasket well.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#35

Post by Rustytank »

I have a tool made by member GeorgiaBoy that clamps the insert and cap assembly that makes disassembly of the 3 piece cap a breeze.
You can either see about getting one from him, or send me your cap with return postage and I'll take yours apart for you. PM me if you'd like me to do it.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#36

Post by burnt bacon »

Rustytank wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:54 am I have a tool made by member GeorgiaBoy that clamps the insert and cap assembly that makes disassembly of the 3 piece cap a breeze.
You can either see about getting one from him, or send me your cap with return postage and I'll take yours apart for you. PM me if you'd like me to do it.
Thank you, will send a PM...
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#37

Post by zoomkat »

If you want to lock the cap and insert together, you probably can use small curved jaw vice grips to do that with a little tinkering.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#38

Post by rob_pontius »

I have one of his cap tools also. It works really well.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#39

Post by Rustytank »

Success! The GeorgiaBoy tool is the best thing for these type caps. burnt bacon I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow.

I'll extend my offer to anyone who needs a cap taken apart.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#40

Post by burnt bacon »

Rustytank wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:37 am Success! The GeorgiaBoy tool is the best thing for these type caps. burnt bacon I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow.

I'll extend my offer to anyone who needs a cap taken apart.
:!: :!: :!: :!: :P :P :P :P
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#41

Post by MartyJ »

Rustytank wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:37 am Success! The GeorgiaBoy tool is the best thing for these type caps. burnt bacon I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow.

I'll extend my offer to anyone who needs a cap taken apart.
I’d buy one of those. It’s like the NRV tool, simple but necessary.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#42

Post by Taco912 »

Rustytank wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:37 am Success! The GeorgiaBoy tool is the best thing for these type caps. burnt bacon I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow.

I'll extend my offer to anyone who needs a cap taken apart.

GeorgiaBoy's tool is the great to haven the Coleman tool box! He is very generous and I'm glad to have his tool!
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#43

Post by Rustytank »

Taco912 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:00 pm
Rustytank wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:37 am Success! The GeorgiaBoy tool is the best thing for these type caps. burnt bacon I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow.

I'll extend my offer to anyone who needs a cap taken apart.

GeorgiaBoy's tool is the great to haven the Coleman tool box! He is very generous and I'm glad to have his tool!
Yep GeorgiaBoy is good people.
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Re: Old Style Filler Cap Issue

#44

Post by burnt bacon »

If I can wrestle a few more caps off of some lanterns, more may be headed to @Rustytank
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