Strange 242

Post your tech questions here, lots of knowledge available.
Post Reply
paulgeorge
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:24 am

Strange 242

#1

Post by paulgeorge »

Hullo All. I regret that I'm unable to post pics here, but I have some questions about an old 242 I aquired recenty.
1). It has a strange pump - not the normal Coleman pump, but a plain plunger with a leather cup and a normal NRV at the bottom.
That is, not a Coleman NRV, not a shaft with a hollow stem. There is a pin through the pump shaft, so that it protrudes a little, equally on each side, and there is a slot in the pump cap to receive the cross pin. I assume it's a travel/locking device.
The only markings on the fount, underneath, shows 3 4 4 the first 4 being very faint.
The support ring is stamped 242. Hard to believe that this type of pump would be on a Coleman-fuelled lantern, as it would be quite dangerous if fuel leaked into the pump chamber through a leaky valve. Perhaps parts have been switched over the years. Hmmm,
makes me wonder if the original Coleman NRV was replaced with the standard European type, and the Coleman pump replaced with a plain one.
It does have the thinner vaporiser, as compared to the thicker one on the 249 Kerosene lantern, so it's most likely a 242.
2). The filler cap insert is much different to the later, standard ones, being more rounded over, quite solid, and hard to tell if there's a seal in there or not.
Oh, and one more thing - the pick up tube is a single tube, not the complex type one would expect to find, but the lighting instructions on the support ring are for a 242.
Perhaps it's an early model ? Or perhaps it's a 249 fount with switched over parts on top ?
3). Is it possible to buy new globes for the 242 & 249 ? New jets ? New vaporiser ?
It won't be running for some time, as it needs a new pricker etc. Any advice much appreciated. Cheers. Paul.

Edit: Photos in Post 13 below. Thanks to Guff.
Last edited by paulgeorge on Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Paul.
Phredd
Serious Colemanaholic
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Strange 242

#2

Post by Phredd »

Sounds like you mix of lanterns. Photos would help

If you have photos - you can send them to me via email and I will post them for you.

PM me and we can trade email addresses.

Kevin

Phredd
ICCC#1799
Coleman Quick Lite Crew #40
User avatar
Coast_to_Coast
Colemanaholic
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:35 pm

Re: Strange 242

#3

Post by Coast_to_Coast »

Sounds like a 242NL. That is the correct pump and the cap seal you speak of is probably just really old and hardened and just needs to be burned out and replaced. Awesome find whatever it is!
-Bird- Wisconsin
“I don’t want another lantern, I just want the last one again”
ICCC#1776     The Coleman Blue‘s 243’s #143
User avatar
SteveRetherford
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 8274
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:12 pm

Re: Strange 242

#4

Post by SteveRetherford »

the 242NL used a NRV with a pip that darn near always needs replaced .
[DrSteve2]    Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
User avatar
Chucker
Moderator
Posts: 7873
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:37 am

Re: Strange 242

#5

Post by Chucker »

You have some work ahead of you - and a very early, special 242. I have two and covet them.

Yes, generators and globes are still available however yours could have had mica when new, 1932-34. Should have a droopy bail and funky ball nut - more like a button.
Chuck
"...Good people pass away; the godly often die before their time. But no one seems to care or wonder why. No one seems to understand that God is protecting them from the evil days to come." Isaiah 57:1-2

Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
User avatar
Tgarner01
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:47 pm

Re: Strange 242

#6

Post by Tgarner01 »

From my understanding you said it has a strait pickup tube? Any preheat cup? Possibly a 242K? There's some write-ups in the how to section detailing how to post photos or I can pm you my email if you want me to post your pictures for you.
Toby Garner, from SW Missouri
ICCC #1939
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#7

Post by Guff »

Hi Paul, and welcome to the forum. I'm also from down under in Far North Queensland.

As others have said above, we need some pictures showing your lantern's features, like the vent, fount, filler cap, frame rest, valve and burner assembly.
You can rule out it being a Coleman 249 model, as the date of 4/34 is way too early, and a thin generator you said your lantern has is too small a diameter to fit on a 249 valveI.
It's possibly a Coleman 242 Junior, or an early 242A, or even a 242K, depending on what other features it has. The 242K has a straight fuel tube pickup, and a cast aluminium preheater cup, the other two have a fuel/air tube pickup, and no preheating cup. Your lantern may also have some swapped out parts, from these 3 lantern models.
Also are there any Coleman logo stampings on the fount that say where it was manufactured, eg. made in USA or made in Canada.

Here are two pictures of one of my 242A lanterns, made in Canada. Have a good look at all it's features and let us know what is different to your lantern. Such as, is the vent the same, or a smaller one with no cutouts for the bail handle, is there a small swing out door in the cage base plate to light the lantern, what other differences?

Keith.
IMG_3190 (2).JPG
IMG_3191 (2).JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
paulgeorge
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:24 am

Re: Strange 242

#8

Post by paulgeorge »

Thank you, Keith. Much appreciated.
Sorry, I can't send photos. Will have to learn - this forum is much different to what I'm used to. Plus, once I've saved the photos to the computer, often I can't find them again, or can't extract them to load up.
Be that as it may, the good news is that I'm sure that my 242 is exactly the same as yours, save that * there are no stampings on the fount anywhere, just 3 4 4 underneath, * and the top cap nut is different - more rounded like a ball on top. * The support ring or skirt is bright and shiny, with the lettering on it, the pump and filler cap are the same as yours. * I think the frame is the same.
The pick up tube - I've not had the valve body off the fount yet, I found that that top area where the valve block screws in is very weak, so must use caution there or else the fount will be wrecked. * There is no preheater cup; it there ever was, it is lost, * and the vent or hood is in very good condition for the age of the lantern, so it may be a later addition. The vent, or hood, does have the cutouts for the bail. * The burner diameter is 21 m/m approx, the thread 1/2" x 26. (The 249 burner is approx. 25 m/m diameter).
The bail is the same as yours. There is no little swing out door in the base plate. The nut securing the base plate is brass, not steel, but that may also be a later substitute. I could send you photos if you wish. My email address I will try to send you a message.
I see no provision in this quick reply window to attach photos. Perhaps I will find instructions elsewhere on this site.
I'm about to order some parts from OCP. A previous owner has put the pricker back in, but bent the wire, so that it broke off when I tried to straighten it. I may need to extract the roll of stuffing in order to clean the inside of the generator. That will be a tricky job.
Many thanks for your assistance. Paul.
Paul.
paulgeorge
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:24 am

Re: Strange 242

#9

Post by paulgeorge »

Gentlemen : Many thanks to all above for your prompt responses and assistance. I have a lot to learn here. Cheers.
Paul.
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#10

Post by Guff »

Thanks for that additional information, Paul, although I'm still not completely sure what Coleman model you actually have. So we need some pictures.

At this stage I think it may be a Coleman 242 Junior, possibly made in the USA.
You can shine a small pencil flashlight into the fount through the fuel filler bung to see the end of the fuel pickup to determine if it is a straight tube or a fuel air tube for gasoline.
The Canadian 242 Juniors would have had a small rising sun logo stamp with the date and made in Canada stamp under it like the one shown on my lantern, and most likely a vent nut like the one shown on my lantern. The USA vent nut is more like what you have described and a lot of the early USA made 242 juniors had no fount markings but the date stamp on the fount base plate.
One more more feature which helps determine where these early 242 lanterns were made is the valve knob. The large multi splined valve knob, like the one on my lantern, was only used on the early Canadian made 242 models. Ones made in the USA had a smaller valve knob with fewer and more pronounced ridges around their circumference.

I will send you a PM ( forum private message) in the morning to arrange to get some of your pictures of your lantern sent to me so I can post them here.

Keith.
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#11

Post by Guff »

Paul, I've sent you a private message through this forum.
If you have not already done so, you may have to click on the section "Allow users to send you private messages" otherwise it won't get into your PM box.

Keith.
paulgeorge
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:24 am

Re: Strange 242

#12

Post by paulgeorge »

Good News ! A new filler cap seal, tickled the pump cup with neatsfoot oil, and she's away ! You little beauty !
Thanks, everybody.
Paul.
Paul.
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#13

Post by Guff »

OK, Paul sent me his pictures of his coleman 242, so here they are.
I think his lantern is a very nice example of a USA made late Coleman 242 Junior. It does not have the small early vent, but the one with the bail handle cut outs.
The fount dated 4/34 on the bottom plate has no other markings, But I think it is correct for that period as it has the small deep depression around the fuel filler. It also has the early open bail tabs on the frame.

I'm quite familiar with all the Canadian 242 lanterns, early and late, but not so much with the USA made ones.
So cast your eyes over Pauls photos below and let us know what you all think. It seems to be burning good.

Keith.
242 15[247742].jpg
Early 242 #1[247748].jpg
242 11[247746].jpg
242 12[247747].jpg
242 13[247744].jpg
242 14[247745].jpg
Early 242 #2[247749].jpg
Early 242 #4[247751].jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Whitegas Extraordinaire
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 2179
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:11 pm

Re: Strange 242

#14

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

Guff wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:22 pm OK, Paul sent me his pictures of his coleman 242, so here they are.
I think his lantern is a very nice example of a USA made late Coleman 242 Junior. It does not have the small early vent, but the one with the bail handle cut outs.
The fount dated 4/34 on the bottom plate has no other markings, But I think it is correct for that period as it has the small deep depression around the fuel filler. It also has the early open bail tabs on the frame.

I'm quite familiar with all the Camadian 242 lanterns, early and late, but not so much with the USA made ones.
So cast your eyes over Pauls photos below and let us know what you all think. It seems to be burning good.

Keith
Thank you for helping Paul out with pictures. It’s been painful waiting. 😳
But we’ll worth it.

paulgeorge wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:08 pm Good News ! A new filler cap seal, tickled the pump cup with neatsfoot oil, and she's away ! You little beauty !
Thanks, everybody.
Paul.
Paul thank you for sharing.

Thank you!
Kevin

I may frighten easily!
My current shade is Coleman!!
To me a lamp without a shade is creepy!

ICCC # 1865

User avatar
Coast_to_Coast
Colemanaholic
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:35 pm

Re: Strange 242

#15

Post by Coast_to_Coast »

Nice Score on the NL!
Question. On 242Nl models is the area around the fuel filler In The small deep depression, often a bit unfinished looking, as far as the solder/weld?
-Bird- Wisconsin
“I don’t want another lantern, I just want the last one again”
ICCC#1776     The Coleman Blue‘s 243’s #143
User avatar
Chucker
Moderator
Posts: 7873
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:37 am

Re: Strange 242

#16

Post by Chucker »

We have fire!

Excellent. Hello Keith and thank you for your assistance with this. Hope you are ready for winter down there.
Chuck
"...Good people pass away; the godly often die before their time. But no one seems to care or wonder why. No one seems to understand that God is protecting them from the evil days to come." Isaiah 57:1-2

Eye-SEE-C-C Member #1333 -- MilSpecOps #003
"Michigan - from the Ojibwa word “meicigama,” meaning “great water.”
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#17

Post by Guff »

Hi Chuck. Glad I could help Paul out with getting his pictures posted.

Question. Is the two 2 numbers for the year stamping on the fount base plate of this lantern correct for a USA made lantern? Paul said his lantern has 34 4 stamped on the base plate. I thought Coleman USA lanterns had single digits for year and month. I know Canadian made ones have a mixed bag of double and single digits even in the same months and years as well as capital letters (A,B,C,D,) for the month quarter.

Yep, I'm really looking forward to our winter. Very mild as they are, compared to your deep freeze winters. It's been a very long, very hot, and extremely humid summer here in the tropical north of Australia.

Keith.
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#18

Post by Guff »

Further information on Paul's 242 has has been supplied by Paul since my post # 13.
I asked Paul to send me a picture of the date stamping on his lantern, which he has now sent me, and I have posted it below.

Edit. Darn... my computer is playing up. Try again, see post below.
Last edited by Guff on Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:59 am, edited 5 times in total.
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#19

Post by Guff »

Further information on Paul's 242 has has been supplied by Paul since my post # 13.
I asked Paul to send me a picture of the date stamping on his lantern, which he has now sent me, and I have posted it below.
Paul also carried out a more intensive inspection of that date stamp on the bottom of the fount, and he is now of the opinion that what he thought was a 4 digit after and close to the digit 3 stamp on the left, may just be some scratches and or some other marks in the steel base, which just resemble a 4 digit. He said the size of that suspect 4 is a lot smaller than the clearly stamped 3 and 4 digits on the left and right sides of the base plate. Personally I can't see anything that resembles a second 4 digit in the second inked circle just to the right of the 3, which Paul has provided. However, those with better eyesight than me may be able to see something.

I think we can probably discount there being a 34 stamp on the left and call only the obvious 3 stamp. I can't find any evidence that Coleman USA ever used two digits for the year number on these 242 lanterns. So the the left and right digit stamps are now 3 and 4 respectively, not 34 and 4, as per previous information. So we can now pinpoint the date of this lantern to April 1933, NOT April 1934 as I assumed previously.

I also think Paul's lantern should have the early small vent, and not the later larger 242 vent with the bail cutouts, and it maybe should also have the droopy shoulder bail.
I see Paul's vent has a blue dot around the vent stud hole. I have not seen that blue dot on any of the early 242 Junior, 242A, or 242K lanterns, so it may be from a later 242 model.

Keith.
rsz_242_date_stamp[247758].jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Tgarner01
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:47 pm

Re: Strange 242

#20

Post by Tgarner01 »

I'm seeing an April of 33 date. I'll check date on mine, don't remember the month, but it is a 33 without pinned NRV pump (stair shaft NRV instead) and non droopy bail (normal narrow bail). There were many variations on the early 242s and 242As as well...
Toby Garner, from SW Missouri
ICCC #1939
Guff
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 1121
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:07 am

Re: Strange 242

#21

Post by Guff »

Thanks Toby.
Have you ever seen a USA 242, 242A or 242B with a blue ink dot around the vent hole.
Also, do those early USA models have the dark green vent colour inside and out as the Canadian ones do ?

Keith.
User avatar
Tgarner01
Super Colemanaholic
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:47 pm

Re: Strange 242

#22

Post by Tgarner01 »

Keith I only have one example of an NL and A. I'm certainly not an expert on them. I've had/have dozens of C's but the early ones are scarce around here. I believe green undersides are the norm on the US NL's & A's
Toby Garner, from SW Missouri
ICCC #1939
paulgeorge
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:24 am

Re: Strange 242

#23

Post by paulgeorge »

Thanks to one and all for your interest, advice and encouragement. It's a bonzer lantern; a few more trial runs and I'll fit a mantle and transfer a Coleman globe from my Austramax to this 242 Junior, and buy a new globe (sob) for the Austramax.
I mentioned, in the first post above, some concern about fuel leaking into the pump chamber if the NRV failed, which does occur with some non-Coleman kerosene lanterns. I had forgotten something that 'magicwrench' mentioned: that there is a 'snorkel' tube from the valve to above the level of the fuel, so that fuel can only get into the pump chamber, or tube, if the lantern is inverted, with a faulty valve. And indeed, this 'snorkel' is visible in the diagram of the 242 on the Old Town Coleman site. So, obviously, good Coleman ideas go way back a long way. Cheers.
Paul.
Post Reply