200a leaking around the check valve

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gdp1
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200a leaking around the check valve

#1

Post by gdp1 »

I have a mint condition 1970 200a I got from my parents. The check valve was leaking and couldn't get it cleaned so I bought a new one, the type with an o-ring. Now I cannot get the new valve, or the old one, to stop leaking and I believe they are leaking around the valve but not sure. If I fill the fount full, pump up about 40-50 strokes and close the needle valve, then I have a small amount of fuel sitting around the base of the check valve. Same with the old or new check valves. The seat on the fount looks good and I even cleaned it up with a bronze brush. I guess they could be leaking thru the needle valve but I don't know how to ensure a seal on it to check.
I tried to install the new valve with slight pressure on the o-ring and also with a hand driven impact wrench. It's a snapon tool that you whack the end and it turns at the same time. Same result either way with the leak. The o-ring looks good and I also tried a different viton o-ring I had that's a little fatter. The fatter didn't seal and came out a little damaged so I trashed it.
I guess I could tolerate a little leak but I store the lantern in Coleman's plastic case and it definitely smells of fuel. I'm concerned about the safety of that setup!
I'm out of ideas and hope someone here has seen this problem and can give me some advice. Thanks in advance for any help!
Phredd
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#2

Post by Phredd »

Two ideas - take out the needle valve and make sure the seat is smooth. If not it might not make a good seal.
And the other is that maybe the leak is coming from somewhere in pump tube and not the check valve. Are you sure it is coming from the valve. Maybe it is leaking somewhere around the bottom of the valve. Maybe with the check valve and needle valve in place, pump up the fount a bit, and then spray a small amount of soapy water in the pump tube, and look for where it is leaking.

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Kgam1020
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#3

Post by Kgam1020 »

Hi and welcome from the forum. You might have a small crack in the pump well maybe near the CV? The snorkel in the fount is above the fuel level so it shouldn't be taking on fuel, unless your over filling the fount. But i don't know if the snorkel would even take on fuel..
Ken.
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Majicwrench
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#4

Post by Majicwrench »

Like said above, put some pressure in font, install air valve (shaft w threads on end) snuggly, add some water to tube and see where bubbles come from. I think soapy water will interfere with seeing where bubbles are coming from.
Keith
gdp1
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#5

Post by gdp1 »

Thanks for the advice! I use leak detector on all the other suspect places but didn't think of putting in the tube. I like the idea of plain water as well. I'll try those tonight and get back to you. Needle valve and seat look good. I hate the idea of a crack in the pump well but it makes sense, since I have the same symptoms with different CVs.
zoomkat
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#6

Post by zoomkat »

You could empty the tank out, fill the pump tube with fuel, and then monitor for a period of time to see if the tube level goes down.
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austin65uri
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#7

Post by austin65uri »

If it turns out to be a lower pump tube leak, and I bet it is, all is not lost. Let us know.
And welcome to the club!
Bill.
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gdp1
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#8

Post by gdp1 »

Well, I've tried several things and it appears that I have a very small leak in the lower pump tube. Long story short I wound up pumping up the pressure, removed the generator and submerged the whole thing in a pot of water. The needle valve was leaking some and I got it closed tight with a gentle turn with a crescent wrench. Hopefully that corrects itself with some use (new check valve). No bubbles in the water after 30 min so I took it out and dried everything off. I don't why but I did turn it upside down and gave it a few good shakes. Let it sit overnight and had about 1/2 a drop or less of fuel around the check valve. I think I could have gotten some fuel in the snorkel with the upside down stuff so I've given it some pumps and then blown out the pump tube with compressed air and will see in a day or so if the fuel returns. So I'm very interested in hearing how you fix a lower pump tube leak! You guys are the best and thanks for welcoming me to the club!
Majicwrench
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#9

Post by Majicwrench »

"No bubble in the water after 30 min" what makes you think anything leaks then?? If you have a leak, it will bubble.
Keith
gdp1
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#10

Post by gdp1 »

Well, if liquid fuel is leaking in there isn't any bubble. No?
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mnhogrider
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#11

Post by mnhogrider »

Put impact driver away. Hitting it with a hammer will loose/tighten but you can also loosen the plug at the bottom of the pump tube. I don’t know if it’s crimped or soldered but either way, it can damage your lantern.
If your going to be in this hobby invest in a check valve removal tool. Cigar Mike sells them.
Steve
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austin65uri
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#12

Post by austin65uri »

If you have fuel in the pump tube and you haven't overfilled the fount or turned it upside down, then you have a crack, pin hole, or seam leak somewhere in the lower tube, the part that would be submerged . Fixing it isn't easy, and unless the lantern is special to you, I'd get a replacement fount; cheap and common. If you want to try and fix yours, you can try this: https://caswellplating.com/lantern-font ... g-kit.html. If the leak is down low enough, and not too big, you can usually slosh the sealer around and seal it. I've used it successfully on two lanterns. It's kind of a PITA to use and $. Good luck!
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Dmacp
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#13

Post by Dmacp »

make sure it is not something simple. Threads and sealing surfaces leak.
Dan
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pagrey
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#14

Post by pagrey »

If I have a fount that is leaking fuel into the pump tube it is retired. I'd be very sure the internal vent tube is blown free of fuel by pumping it up a few times. Once you do that if fuel gets into the pump tube something bad has broken, it isn't just leaking threads or a leaking check valve. The assembly is soldered at the bottom onto the tube. Either the internal vent tube is broken or the pump tube is compromised and leaking. Neither are easy fixes.
Paul
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Ridge Runner
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#15

Post by Ridge Runner »

Dmacp wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:21 pm make sure it is not something simple. Threads and sealing surfaces leak.
+1

Empty the fount and do another dunk test!
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pagrey
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#16

Post by pagrey »

I don't think the dunk test will give you a clue as to why there is fuel in the pump tube, maybe I'm missing something which wouldn't be a surprise. If the fount is underwater you aren't going to get a close look at the base of the pump tube.
Paul
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austin65uri
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#17

Post by austin65uri »

You can remove the check valve and remove the pump stem with its needle valve end, and you still won't have any fuel leaking into the tube unless the submerged tube/ air "snorkel" is compromised in some way. That's how they are designed.
Bill.
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Majicwrench
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#18

Post by Majicwrench »

If you dunked font with fuel in it, that was not the thing to do. Empty font, pressurize, and dunk, with pump removed and air stem installed. If there are leaks, it will bubble.

CF evaporates quickly. A tiny leak, "a half a drop" would evap in a big hurry. Are you sure if was CF at bottom of tube and not water??

Best of luck to you.
Keith
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austin65uri
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#19

Post by austin65uri »

GDP1, so how did you make out?
Bill.
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gdp1
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#20

Post by gdp1 »

You guys are great, thanks for all the help. I did the dunk in water test again with an empty pressurized fount and had no bubbles for the 10 min or so that I watched it. Put it all back together with fuel and works great except... when I put the pressurized lantern in the plastic carry case, cleaned well with soap and water on the inside, I still get a little fuel odor. I'm thinking maybe its residual fuel in the passage before the generator. Right now I'm leaving the lantern out of the case for a week to vent and then put it back into the case to see if I still get the odor. I did look around for 200a founts for sale but only found old beatup lanterns they are asking north of $80 for.
I had no idea there is a sealer for the fount and good to know. Has anyone used it for some time? I ask because I just finished removing the fount liner from a 220k which was a real pain. Wouldn't want to go thru that again.
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austin65uri
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Re: 200a leaking around the check valve

#21

Post by austin65uri »

Caswells is generally considered pretty permanent if properly applied.
Bill.
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