ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

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adkbill
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ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#1

Post by adkbill »

I used to have the part number and specifications
for 10 by 10 sheets of the brass screening from McMaster-Carr
that matches Coleman burner screens, but have since lost it.

My supply lasted a long time but over the course of ten years,
I have given away and used most of it.
Anybody out there remember or write down what it is

BTW - I did do a search on burner screen material, but got 67 pages back.

Thanks guys
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#2

Post by Phredd »

I'm also interested in this info.

And also interested in how to cut a nice even circle - my attempt always look like - well not very round :)

Kevin

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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#3

Post by campinut »

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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#4

Post by Phredd »

Duh! I shoulda and coulda thought of that....

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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#5

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

adkbill wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:28 pm I used to have the part number and specifications
for 10 by 10 sheets of the brass screening from McMaster-Carr
that matches Coleman burner screens, but have since lost it.

My supply lasted a long time but over the course of ten years,
I have given away and used most of it.
Anybody out there remember or write down what it is

BTW - I did do a search on burner screen material, but got 67 pages back.

Thanks guys
Bill
Their search is pretty good
I’m not sure if this is what you are looking for?

Attachment isn’t working

https://www.mcmaster.com/#9223T771

Thank you!
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#6

Post by adkbill »

Whitegas Extraordinaire wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:59 pm Bill
Their search is pretty good
I’m not sure if this is what you are looking for?

https://www.mcmaster.com/#9223T771
The link you provided was for a 1 ft by 3 ft sheet, but I do appreciate the follow up
Are you pretty sure the spec's - other than overall length and width - are good for creating burner screens.
If so, the link and spec info provided below matches the page I managed to save for the brass mesh I use to cut and replace the "cardboard" tubes in generators.

Using the specs on your link and the details on my link, I see a match for a 12 by 12 sheet 9223T78 as follows
mesh size wire diameter open area opening size part #
10  X  10 ........ 0.0750................. 56%.................. 0.0250............... 9223T78.. at $17.02 per 12 by 12 sheet

Generator rebuild brass mesh at McMaster-Carr

https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/123/441/=177iq4y

Brass Woven Wire Cloth,
100 x 100 Mesh,
.0045" Wire Diameter
30% open area, and
.006 opening size
p/n 9223T92
price $7.48 plus shipping
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#7

Post by Chucker »

Is brass better than stainless steel for this application?
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#8

Post by zoomkat »

"Is brass better than stainless steel for this application?"

For a burner screen, probably yes.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#9

Post by MYN927 »

I'd be pretty baffled if the screen material on the burner screen is really brass. It does appear brass-colored anyway.
At those burner operating temperatures, the screen would be glowing or incandescent. I'd doubt brass could last long in that.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#10

Post by adkbill »

MYN927 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:53 am I'd be pretty baffled if the screen material on the burner screen is really brass. It does appear brass-colored anyway.
At those burner operating temperatures, the screen would be glowing or incandescent. I'd doubt brass could last long in that.
I can't be sure what I got ten years ago is the same as they sell now, but what I got then was perfect for this purpose and never withered away. The benefit -to me - of brass, is that it is easier to crown it a little before installing it and then flattening it to secure it
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#11

Post by Phredd »

Brass has a melting temperature of about 1650-1770+ deg F. The melting point of stainless steel will be well above 2000 deg F depending on the grade.

I remember someone posting temperatures of lanterns. How hot does a 237 kero get?

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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#12

Post by Chucker »

Phredd wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:11 pm Brass has a melting temperature of about 1650-1770+ deg F. The melting point of stainless steel will be well above 2000 deg F depending on the grade.

I remember someone posting temperatures of lanterns. How hot does a 237 kero get?

Kevin

I recall a member testing a 237 on kero a few years ago - at the vent exit point as well as a couple other spots. IIRC, the max temp was around 1050 deg. F. That makes CF temps cooler; as I recall around 950 deg.F.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#13

Post by Phredd »

Looks like brass will work fine. And easier to work with.

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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#14

Post by MYN927 »

1050degF is about the temperature under the hood near the exit vents of a 237.
I've measured in deg C of the inner hood of my Petromax too. It registered around ~550-580deg C (1020~1080deg F), which is pretty much similar.
However, the screen within the burner cap of a Coleman should reach the temperature close to that of the glowing mantle or the flame. That'd be around 1000deg C or so (~1830deg F). Doesn't sound too nice for brass.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#15

Post by zoomkat »

"However, the screen within the burner cap of a Coleman should reach the temperature close to that of the glowing mantle or the flame. That'd be around 1000deg C or so (~1830deg F). Doesn't sound too nice for brass."

Well, I think this approach to what is going on with a burner screen may not be on point. The main function of the brass burner screen is to act as a flame arrestor to prevent the combustion of the fuel/air mix in the burner tubes and plenum. The thermal properties of brass are probably better for this function than steel. As to temperatures, your measurements are limited to post combustion areas of the lantern. Have you measured the temperature of the fuel/air mix before it enters the burner screen? From casual observation the fuel/air mix in the burner tube is below the combustion temperature of the mix. The actual temperatures of the mix flowing across the burner screens will probably be lower than many think, and actually act to keep the screen much lower than the combustion temperatures below the screen. Just saying that assuming the burner screen is at or near the temperature of the combustion below it may not be correct. YMMV
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#16

Post by Northman49 »

You may save some money with these. I think 3/4" or 1" should be adequate. Lots of different ones on 'zon
brass screen.jpg
brass inch.jpg
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#17

Post by adkbill »

Northman49 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:04 pm You may save some money with these. I think 3/4" or 1" should be adequate. Lots of different ones on 'zon
Thanks Ed
But from what I remember of my old pipe-smoking days about 50 years ago, pipe screens are pretty lightweight compared to burner screens.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#18

Post by zoomkat »

The pipe screens are good for a 420 day, but probably will not work well in a lantern. Not sure what they currently cost, but the best bet is to buy several from OCP as backup spares and to replace missing screens. If one is careful burner screens can usually be removed and replaced without damage to the screen, it just takes a little planning.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#19

Post by MYN927 »

zoomkat wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:25 pm "However, the screen within the burner cap of a Coleman should reach the temperature close to that of the glowing mantle or the flame. That'd be around 1000deg C or so (~1830deg F). Doesn't sound too nice for brass."

Well, I think this approach to what is going on with a burner screen may not be on point. The main function of the brass burner screen is to act as a flame arrestor to prevent the combustion of the fuel/air mix in the burner tubes and plenum. The thermal properties of brass are probably better for this function than steel. As to temperatures, your measurements are limited to post combustion areas of the lantern. Have you measured the temperature of the fuel/air mix before it enters the burner screen? From casual observation the fuel/air mix in the burner tube is below the combustion temperature of the mix. The actual temperatures of the mix flowing across the burner screens will probably be lower than many think, and actually act to keep the screen much lower than the combustion temperatures below the screen. Just saying that assuming the burner screen is at or near the temperature of the combustion below it may not be correct. YMMV
You are quite right about the temperature of the fuel-air mix flowing in the mixer tube. Its definitely cooler than what's the post combustion products within the hood. I'd say just below the autoignition temperature of the fuel.
I couldn't measure the exact temperatures of the glowing burner screen. I could only estimate from the color of the glow while operating the lantern without the mantle. They sure appeared 'bright orange to yellow' to me. A rough comparison to the color-temperature chart of blackbodies in the range of 1470 to 1650deg F (800-900 deg C). With the mantle on, I bet it'll go somewhat higher.
Unless the mesh(if its really brass) is adequately cooled by the fuel-air mix on time, I'm pretty sure it'd eventually melt or get oxidized real soon.
The only way to know for sure is to place a thin brass wire(mesh-size) closely over the mesh while the lantern is operating. If its unharmed, then brass is sure the way to go.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#20

Post by MYN927 »

I'd personally prefer something more heat resistant such as certain FeCrAl alloys, 310 stainless steel or nichrome as mesh materials. Of course, that's provided when they're conveniently available.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#21

Post by Deanofid »

For what it's worth, the original screens in 327 lanterns was made of steel mesh. Later, Coleman switched to stainless steel. So, they saw fit to go UP in material strength as well as UP in melting temp. Brass is nearly 1000 F lower in melting point that common steel. Stainless melts a little higher than common steel.

If brass works, that's great. I'm just mentioning what Coleman actually used.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#22

Post by adkbill »

Given the cost of the sheets $17.02 vs the OCP price of $1.50 each
and the fact that I probably won't really need many more in my lifetime,
I think @zoomkat had the right idea to just buy a small batch from OCP to have on hand should the need arise.

Mike's may be brass-coated, but looking at SKU: 237 burner screen and SKU:236-3231 for the cap and screen they both sure look like brass to me.

Needless to say, this has been an interesting discussion.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#23

Post by zoomkat »

"Mike's may be brass-coated"

I think the OCP screens are brass. I checked one I bought with a little piece of a super magnet and it was non responsive to the magnet. Checking the screens with a good magnet along with visual observation of the screen color should pretty much determine the screen material.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#24

Post by StanDahl »

This is what was recommended by someone here back in 2012. It's actually cheaper now than when I bought it back then:

https://www.mcmaster.com/85385T854/
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#25

Post by Deanofid »

zoomkat wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:53 pm "Mike's may be brass-coated"

I think the OCP screens are brass. I checked one I bought with a little piece of a super magnet and it was non responsive to the magnet. Checking the screens with a good magnet along with visual observation of the screen color should pretty much determine the screen material.
For adkbill, I don't know for sure, but I don't think Mike's (OCP) screens are brass coated. Also, the screens I've bought from OCP are silver colored. Just my two bits on that subject.

Zoomy, if the OCP screens look like brass, they may be brass. The ones I have from OCP are silver colored, and I know they are not brass, because they spark on a grinding wheel. Also, they are a high quality stuff. My guess is 304 stainless, which shows no magnetic attraction, (though neither does brass).
Why someone would go to the expense of plating these screens in either silver looking steel alloy or yellow looking brass alloy, I do not know and to me does not make sense. I think from my magnet tests and from putting a screen from OCP on a grinding wheel that they are 304 SS. Unless they are actually gold (brass) colored before they are ever used, I would expect them to be a type of steel. Both 316 and 303 stainless steels are minimally attracted to a magnet. Just barely will make a magnet move. 304 that I have here in the shop will not pick up a neodymium magnet.

Just some thoughts.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#26

Post by zoomkat »

Deanofid, I stand corrected. When I tested the screen with a magnet, it was still sealed in the small brown envelop as sent from OCP. When I took it out, screen was in indeed silver in color instead of brass colored. I suspect the screen is a stainless steel product due to its stiffness and the fact that it does have slight magnetic properties (didn't test for sparks with the Dremel tool). Below is a picture of it very lightly suspended from a magnet.
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Re: ISO Part Number for McMaster-Carr Sheets for Burner Screen Material

#27

Post by adkbill »

@ Deanofid
Thanks to you and everyone else for all the great info
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