No hole for the oil?

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Vendo63 guy
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No hole for the oil?

#1

Post by Vendo63 guy »

Putting this 5/58 220E back together after a quick fettling and I noticed there is no hole or “OIL” stamped in the pump cap. My ‘53, ‘56, and ‘57 all have the hole so I know it was a thing when the lantern was produced. The lantern appeared all original and unmolested; the leather pump cup and associated hardware is all period correct and doesn’t appear to have been changed out. Guessing maybe a sub-tier supplier screwed up a batch of caps? Curious if any y’all have come across this.
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Deanofid
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#2

Post by Deanofid »

I've seen one like that. I think I still have it. Just put some oil on the pump shaft and let it run down to the leather.
I don't remember which model I have without that oil hole, but the older 220B had no oil hole either. You just took off the pump cap and put in some oil, but those caps were threaded on.
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bluesky0812
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#3

Post by bluesky0812 »

I have bunch of D's without the hole.
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Last edited by bluesky0812 on Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#4

Post by Ridge Runner »

That one certainly looks right for an earlier model, especially with the dark pump knob. Not a supplier issue. It was probably swapped out somewhere along the line or was in the bottom of the parts bin in the assembly line. The oil hole showed up early-50's.

Personally, I find those more desirable since many early models that should have that pump were replaced over the years with the newer style. I like to make things period-correct so having one of those is good if you need one on an older unit that may need it.
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Tgarner01
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#5

Post by Tgarner01 »

The first stamped pump caps had no oil hole... 47-50? I'd have to look through my examples... Mostly found on 220/228D's and late 242Cs maybe even the early 200/200A's? Someone surely knows their timeline 😁 Like L.J. mentioned your black pump knob is correct for your vintage of lantern.
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#6

Post by MYN927 »

I have a 1938 Coleman 237 that does not have the oil-hole on the pump cap.
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#7

Post by Kgam1020 »

My 6/50 242C is not stamped for the oil hole, nor is my 12/46 242C.
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#8

Post by Vendo63 guy »

Great insight, thank you all! Your comments and timelines have led me to another question:
Ridge Runner wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:50 am That one certainly looks right for an earlier model, especially with the dark pump knob. Not a supplier issue. It was probably swapped out somewhere along the line or was in the bottom of the parts bin in the assembly line. The oil hole showed up early-50's.

Personally, I find those more desirable since many early models that should have that pump were replaced over the years with the newer style. I like to make things period-correct so having one of those is good if you need one on an older unit that may need it.
I’m a stickler for correctness as well. In the spirit of that, I have experience with only one D model and this summer it became my No. 1 user for camping; it’s a B-47 and it has the oil hole and nickel thumb cap.

It seems most likely the original 220D plunger assembly has been swapped out based on the timelines you all have suggested. Strictly from a period correctness standpoint, would it be prudent to swap these two and put the assembly with no oil hole (on the left in the pic below) on the 220D?
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#9

Post by Ridge Runner »

Vendo63 guy wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:14 pm Great insight, thank you all! Your comments and timelines have led me to another question:
Ridge Runner wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:50 am That one certainly looks right for an earlier model, especially with the dark pump knob. Not a supplier issue. It was probably swapped out somewhere along the line or was in the bottom of the parts bin in the assembly line. The oil hole showed up early-50's.

Personally, I find those more desirable since many early models that should have that pump were replaced over the years with the newer style. I like to make things period-correct so having one of those is good if you need one on an older unit that may need it.
I’m a stickler for correctness as well. In the spirit of that, I have experience with only one D model and this summer it became my No. 1 user for camping; it’s a B-47 and it has the oil hole and nickel thumb cap.

It seems most likely the original 220D plunger assembly has been swapped out based on the timelines you all have suggested. Strictly from a period correctness standpoint, would it be prudent to swap these two and put the assembly with no oil hole (on the left in the pic below) on the 220D?
From your E model: Is the blank pump cap magnetic? Can you tell if it is nickel-plated brass?

How about the plunger shaft itself, is that magnetic?
— L.J.
In the foothills of the Berkshires, Western Massachusetts

Wanted: Anything January 1925 from the U.S.
I love the smell of naphtha in the morning!
"Ain’t no need to watch where I’m goin’; just need to know where I’ve been" -Tow Mater
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#10

Post by Vendo63 guy »

Ridge Runner wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:44 pm
Vendo63 guy wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:14 pm
Ridge Runner wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:50 am
From your E model: Is the blank pump cap magnetic? Can you tell if it is nickel-plated brass?

How about the plunger shaft itself, is that magnetic?
The blank E cap is plated brass, the shaft is steel.
Jake

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Vendo63 guy
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#11

Post by Vendo63 guy »

bluesky0812 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:15 am I have bunch of D's without the hole.
I notice both you pictured have the nickel thumb cap and appear to have brass shafts.

Is it possible a PO just wanted to ‘upgrade’ to a cap with the oil hole and that’s all they swapped out on my D?

Would it be fair to just swap caps and maintain integrity on the rest of the assemblies?
Jake

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Re: No hole for the oil?

#12

Post by Ridge Runner »

Vendo63 guy wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:04 pm
Ridge Runner wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:44 pm
Vendo63 guy wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 4:14 pm
Ridge Runner wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:50 am
From your E model: Is the blank pump cap magnetic? Can you tell if it is nickel-plated brass?

How about the plunger shaft itself, is that magnetic?
The blank E cap is plated brass, the shaft is steel.
OK, that’s what I thought it looked like.

Based on examples in my collection and others I've seen, I think you'd be most-correct if you wanted to swap the stamped pump cap between the two. The knob and plunger on your D look correct and the knob and plunger from your E seem right for mid-to-late 50's.
— L.J.
In the foothills of the Berkshires, Western Massachusetts

Wanted: Anything January 1925 from the U.S.
I love the smell of naphtha in the morning!
"Ain’t no need to watch where I’m goin’; just need to know where I’ve been" -Tow Mater
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bluesky0812
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#13

Post by bluesky0812 »

I looked in the book last night, just seeing if it was documented on the D's. If I recall it said the D's were produced until 1951 without oil holes. Recall that the B's an C's had screw on caps without a hole also.

Based on that I would think that someone figured it would be easier having a hole rather than unscrewing two screws to oil the pump.

Edit: Reading some of the other post Toby's time frame is correct for the 220/228s that is all I looked at.
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Vendo63 guy
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#14

Post by Vendo63 guy »

Thanks everyone. Based on all your feedback it sounds like my B-47 220D should have a cap with no hole and it’s more than probable a PO swapped it out some time ago. I’ve swapped it back and it sounds like both the D and E are more period correct than they were before. Glad I asked!
Jake

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Re: No hole for the oil?

#15

Post by Quicklite »

Grasshoppers,
Do the pump leather oiling the best way. Remove the pump with leather and re-soak the leather with neatsfoot oil, wiping the excess off and reinstall. Works like new and lasts.

Quicklite
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#16

Post by Peter Kn 055 »

I have a 4/47 220D. The fount base has holes in it. I'm looking for a replacement. The Pump cap is plated brass and the stem is brass. There is no oil hole in the cap.
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#17

Post by Gasman64 »

Peter Kn 055 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:22 am I have a 4/47 220D. The fount base has holes in it. I'm looking for a replacement. The Pump cap is plated brass and the stem is brass. There is no oil hole in the cap.
Welcome to the CCF, Peter; if you're asking for a replacement fount, try an ad in "Classifieds"; it'll be much more readily noticed.
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Re: No hole for the oil?

#18

Post by BSAGuy »

Definitely unholy.
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