What do I have and what do I need

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Flotsam
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What do I have and what do I need

#1

Post by Flotsam »

I have what I believe is a Prentis Wabers campstove Model 468 Autocook two burner my folks used in late 30's and 40's and we later used while deer hunting in the 50's. I am in the process of getting it fired up and have a few questions. The pump assembly has a solid shaft pump and a terminal removable end with a spring and pip holder as the check valve. The pip itself is about 11/16ths in diameter and is shot and from reading the forum I'm certain I can make something work there. If not, I will order a commercial pip although I cannot tell what the diameter of those are or if they are for specific models only. (I found some old ads for the unit and note pips are available at 2 for 9 cents, outrageously expensive for the times. Har har.) Also, unlike other more modern pump assemblies I have seen, there is no real retention plate to prevent the leather cup from working its way off the spindle and very little surface area on the brass plate behind the cup itself. My question is, then: Is the cup somehow affixed on the narrow back perimeter with an adhesive of some sort to minimize it's migration potential off the spindle, or did my pop pitch a part at one time that belonged with the original assembly. I would be tempted to put a drop or three of a gasket sealer on the back of the leather to keep it in place. The current leather is shot.(I used the assembly barrel itself as the "socket" for forming up a few new leather cups, using some water soaked deer hide and am confident I can get the pump functioning once again.) I need to get this up and running so I can get out the cast iron pan and load the venison if I should be so fortunate.
Thanks for your help. Hope to figure out how to provide a few photos to clarify but as of yet cannot locate the means to do so.
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Gunhippie
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#2

Post by Gunhippie »

There should be a backer on the pump shaft that is near the diameter of the tube, minus the leather pump cup. I'd have to go back and look at mine to be sure.

The leather cup should be able to "float" a bit on the shaft, between two retaining plates, so that air can enter on the upstroke--no adhesives.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes before you criticize him--then you're a mile away, and he has no shoes.
Texan's last words: "Y'all--hold my beer--I wanta' try sumptin'."
Timm--Middle of nowhere, near the end of the road, Oregon.
Majicwrench
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#3

Post by Majicwrench »

I've got a couple of old PW's, love em. I'll look tomorrow at mine.

Pictures....can be tough. If you would like, I have sent you a Private Message with my email, you can send em to me and I will try to get em posted.

Timm is correct, the leather should be loose, not adhered .
Keith
Flotsam
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#4

Post by Flotsam »

Thanks. It just seems to me there is virtually nothing to prevent the leather from leaving its perch on the backstroke. Not a problem with pushing forward although the lip on which it rides is very narrow. I will give the pictures a shot as you suggested.
Majicwrench
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#5

Post by Majicwrench »

Here is a couple pictures of the gentleman's pump.The bottom picture is my PW pump with intact cup
PW PUMP #2.jpg
PW PUMP.jpg
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Keith
Flotsam
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#6

Post by Flotsam »

Happy to have input from any and all on this winter project. Majicwrench has been most helpful. Still trying to get my neck around how that leather stays in place if the hole is cut to accommodate the sleeve on which it rests, as the knurled nut with the slot in it is smaller in diameter and I would think the whole leather is not captured in any way on the back stroke. If I do chicken out I would need and welcome some help in ordering the proper sized leather in which case things might become self evident and a proper sized check valve nib(the socket for that is roughly 5/32" in diameter and I have had difficulty locating a piece of nitrile o ring fat enuf to fit.
Majicwrench
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#7

Post by Majicwrench »

The stove in question. There is not a 468 on Terry's site.
PW #3.jpg
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Keith
Majicwrench
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#8

Post by Majicwrench »

IMG_1949[1].JPG
IMG_1950[1].JPG
This is how the cup is captured.
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Keith
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SteveRetherford
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#9

Post by SteveRetherford »

i know i had to replace that leather before , i think the 427 leather cup size fit .

i think this is what i used https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product ... at=&page=2 BUT i just bought one of these the other day from OCP , came pre oiled in a plastic bag inside a manila envelope and it was completly flatened out , i mean flat , no cup shape at all to it , so i had to stick in a jig for these to keep there shape before i could use it , shoved in a pvc pipe with a ball bearing inside the cup to reshape it .
Steve , Keeper of the Light !!!
Flotsam
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#10

Post by Flotsam »

Those pictures are indeed worth a thousand words. It all makes sense. Progress!! That's a nice looking leather as well and it's obvious that wasn't going nowhere. Appreciate you took the time to dismantle it to demo the relationship between parts. Even with an eye loupe and good lighting it is very hard to discern that there is anything at all sandwiched between the two brass pieces, but tomorrow when I go on the attack will tell.
Flotsam
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#11

Post by Flotsam »

Followup on the project. Got her up and running but not without mishap. I soaked the plunger end in liquid wrench for two days and decided to apply lots of heat with a propane torch to get the retaining piece off the backing plate. I ground down an old screwdriver blade and the fit was good. I put the backing plate in the vise and it would NOT budge with a Vicegrip on the driver blade and lots of downward pressure on the slot, tapping, etc. Ended up totally distorting the whole unit.(Grr) I ordered a used 5” long pump 415C-E773 from OldColemanparts that was pictured, thinking I could salvage parts from it. The diameter was fine, so I think it came from a similar vintage stove or lantern, but the length was not and the shaft itself was a larger diameter with a different thread and a different easily understood threaded retention plate. That all now sits in a box as a paperweight, unused and unneeded. I am open to suggestions as to what to do with that item, put it in classified, offer to return it for resale, exchange for some other parts or what. I do not know how to label such an item as I do not know what unit is was made for. I ended up making a circular backing plate out of a piece of copper tubing hammered flat and a retention plate for the leather out of an old 1Won brass Korean coin. I made a couple leather cups for fun using an old bronze bushing and a wood dowel. Cut a hole in the leather using a .30-06 shell. Capped it all off with a retention nut made from a .45 casing with a small primer hole which threads onto the shaft. That leather is going nowhere. In to the unit, pumped up very well. Learned a lot about getting the crudded up generator spring out of its home after 83 years as well. Ultimately fired up; not even any burnt forearm hairs or eyebrows; after other problems solved, now feel like a king. A fun project with a desired result, thanks to you and this site. Happy Thanksgiving. A few pix follow, I hope. Nope- couldn't get them to work. Maybe I will send to Keith the expert. Anyhow, Happy Thanksgiving
Majicwrench
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#12

Post by Majicwrench »

Send em my way! Glad you got er going.

I would send that part back to OCP so one of us can buy it someday!
Keith
Majicwrench
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#13

Post by Majicwrench »

PHOTO TWO.jpg
PHOTO THREE.jpg
PHOTO ONE.jpg
Some pictures the OP sent me.....

Looking good!
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Keith
Flotsam
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Re: What do I have and what do I need

#14

Post by Flotsam »

Thanks for posting the fotos. I see my problem might have been that the images were way too large to be accepted, even though I reduced them to what I believe was the very minimum. I'll have to work on that in the future.
FYI, I did send the pump assembly back per your suggestion- took a hit on the return postage but at least somebody else might benefit from it down the road. I have enough paperweights. No venison in the pan this year but perhaps subsequent years as the unit now functions as it did in 1938. Very happy.
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