Can you identify this lantern?

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BryanWP
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Can you identify this lantern?

#1

Post by BryanWP »

See edit on the bottom!
Hey guys. I have a mystery lantern to me.
Cleaned the glass which is a Coleman red letter, made in the USA.
On the air tube next to the generator of this dual mantle is the following stamp: US PAT
MAY 13, 1919. Under that is BRITISH PAT 153329 USA.
No legible stamp on the bottom or side of the fount nor on the collar that I see.
The vent on top? May not be the correct one because it doesn't cover the top of the frame. Not positive that it's even the proper globe although as a red letter I'm pretty sure it has value.
It uses a screw on type pump but, it was missing when I got it.
Perhaps you can help me through this mystery? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Bryan
Edit: I've had the fount upside down all night with vinegar poured on the bottom of the fount as was suggested. I went out before I called it a night and brushed the rust, rinsed and filled it again. Just went out, brushed it some more and as it's clearing up I found the date of 5 / 7 on it. We now have a date but is it the month then year on the early ones, or year then month? Added a couple photos of where I am presently on rust removal on the bottom of the fount.
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Last edited by BryanWP on Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Hot_Diggity
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#2

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Looks like a 220B. Vent looks correct. How is the bail attached? Cotter pins, key hole slot? The key hole will only line up and allow the bail to be removed when it's hanging straight down, so the lantern has to be disassembled to remove it.
Last edited by Hot_Diggity on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#3

Post by 10gage »

220 b. Appears to be a early one. Everything is original except the globe from what I can see. I don’t believe these were marked with a model number.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#4

Post by BryanWP »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:23 pm Looks like a 220B. Vent looks correct. How is the bail attached? Cotter pins, key hole slot?
I wasn't even aware in checking out how the bail is attached.
They are secured with cotter pins.


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Hot_Diggity
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#5

Post by Hot_Diggity »

That will help pin down the date. Somebody with a good memory or their book handy will be along in a minute. 1936?

My first real fettle was a 228B and it looked waaaaay worse than yours. That thing will clean up nice.
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Tgarner01
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#6

Post by Tgarner01 »

31-35 220B from what I can see. Get enough rust cleaned off the button and I bet the date stamps will show up.

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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#7

Post by BryanWP »

Tgarner01 wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:41 pm 31-35 220B from what I can see. Get enough rust cleaned off the button and I bet the date stamps will show up.

Image
Well, look at that! We have a winner. After I saw your reply I hesitantly decided to set the bottom of the fount in a shallow tray of vinegar I have setting on the workbench.
( Still not sure if that is safe for that type of fount?)
I pulled it back out fairly quick and rubbed it lightly with a bristle brush and the Coleman stamp is appearing. I set it back in to see if I can get enough off the see a date stamp.
If I shouldn't have it in vinegar can someone shout it out before I ruin the fount?
Located a pump for it which will arrive this week.
Thanks!
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#8

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Lye (oven cleaner) would be preferred on the nickel. I don't know if the vinegar will harm it, but it turns brass pink.

Mine has no visible date. I gave up scrubbing and looking years ago.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#9

Post by BryanWP »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:03 am Lye (oven cleaner) would be preferred on the nickel. I don't know if the vinegar will harm it, but it turns brass pink.

Mine has no visible date. I gave up scrubbing and looking years ago.
So, if I use a small glass container big enough to set the bottom of the fount in, about how much lye to water would I use?
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#10

Post by Hot_Diggity »

I always use spray oven cleaner. No worries about container size or waste disposal. Put a trash bag over a plastic bucket outside for a stand. Wear gloves. Let it sit 20 minutes and scrub gently with a potato brush and old tooth brush.

Rinse thoroughly. That will get you ready to polish.
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czechphotoguy
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#11

Post by czechphotoguy »

Isn’t that May of 1930? I thought month was on right and year was on left for this model?

If that is the case you do realize this is the very first run of this particular model as they started in May of 1930 according to the Coleman Bible?

As quoted in the scriptures pg. 114

“First made in large number in May 1930; last made in November 1942…220B stamped on bottom of both 220B & 228B models (first years only), bottom plate stamped Instant Lite…Date stamping on bottom of the found with one digit for the year on the left and one or two digits on the right for the month (very occasionally reversed on this model).”

OH and BTW. 220B is stamped between Wichita, KAS and Instant Lite on the bottom.

The other reason why the vent won’t fit over the top of the frame is that the earlier production models of the 220 vents have a smaller diameter than the tops of the frames.

You might want to have someone send you a photo of pg. 114 because everything is pointing too that you have gotten a first run of this model!

Ross
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Tgarner01
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#12

Post by Tgarner01 »

czechphotoguy wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:42 am Isn’t that May of 1930? I thought month was on right and year was on left for this model?

If that is the case you do realize this is the very first run of this particular model as they started in May of 1930 according to the Coleman Bible?

As quoted in the scriptures pg. 114

“First made in large number in May 1930; last made in November 1942…220B stamped on bottom of both 220B & 228B models (first years only), bottom plate stamped Instant Lite…Date stamping on bottom of the found with one digit for the year on the left and one or two digits on the right for the month (very occasionally reversed on this model).”

OH and BTW. 220B is stamped between Wichita, KAS and Instant Lite on the bottom.

You might want to have someone send you a photo of pg. 114 as you might have gotten a first run of this model!

Ross
Ross that photo is of one of my lanterns. You are correct that it is a May 1930 228B. These early B's are often reverse dated... But not always. Both 220's and 228's had the 220B stamp on the bottom from 1930-34.

I also ask that you don't refer to the ICCC collector book as "The Bible" while a good resource, it is not perfect.. As new information comes to light, many things that were once thought of as facts have changed... This is not the case with the one true bible 😁

For what it's worth I have it in my notes the 220/228B line run from 1/30-7/44.

The lantern that the base is photoed from above.

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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#13

Post by czechphotoguy »

Then I take it all back as I thought the bottom of his lantern was what was posted in yours.

Never mind…(walks back into corner with head down).

:D

Ross
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#14

Post by Brightlight »

Bryan, you should probably start writing this down. You are getting conflicting info.

Lye is great for ogranic material removal (dirt, grime, old fuel deposits). It won’t harm nickel. But it does nothing for rust.

Citric acid or acetic acid (vinegar) will dissolve rust but doesn’t do much for organic removal. These acids will dissolve the nickel plating!

Take your fount and turn it upside down and fill the bottom rim with vinegar or citric acid. Doing what you are with it sitting in a plate of vinegar will make a nice ring where the nickel disappears. You also probably don’t have the steel bottom touching the vinegar unless you removed the air pocket when you set it in there.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#15

Post by BryanWP »

Brightlight wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:51 am Bryan, you should probably start writing this down. You are getting conflicting info.

Lye is great for ogranic material removal (dirt, grime, old fuel deposits). It won’t harm nickel. But it does nothing for rust.

Citric acid or acetic acid (vinegar) will dissolve rust but doesn’t do much for organic removal. These acids will dissolve the nickel plating!

Take your fount and turn it upside down and fill the bottom rim with vinegar or citric acid. Doing what you are with it sitting in a plate of vinegar will make a nice ring where the nickel disappears. You also probably don’t have the steel bottom touching the vinegar unless you removed the air pocket when you set it in there.
Gotcha, and thanks.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#16

Post by BryanWP »

I edited above and added a couple photos of the bottom of the fount after a night of its vinegar soak and some brushing.
I can see a stamped date of 5/7 and most of the outer ring of writing is fairly legible. I can make out faintly the "Coleman, sunshine of the night" emblem in the center but I don't think I'll be recovering any more of that than I already have. Other than some fine steel wool, I'm running out of ideas on what else to do.
On a positive note, it still looks intact enough that it is still a usable fount but, I'll know for sure when I cross that bridge. I'll have a replacement for the pump which was missing later this week.
Any suggestions anyone?
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#17

Post by Tgarner01 »

Bryan, me personally I would use some fine 0000 steel wool on that rust, then either oil it, or use some boiled linseed oil on it... Anything to keep moist air from getting to it. Looking good so far 👍
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#18

Post by Brightlight »

With the wording Lamp And Stove (no &), it’s post 1934. My derusting approach if you want to go further is to use naval jelly to spot treat the heavily rusted area. The phosphoric acid slowly softens the rust and you then mechanically remove it with a flat edge. I use a curved pick. It’s labor, but depends where you want to stop.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#19

Post by BryanWP »

It's got a 5 7 date clearly legible (in person anyhow) which I believe makes it a May 1937?
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#20

Post by BryanWP »

Tgarner01 wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:52 pm Bryan, me personally I would use some fine 0000 steel wool on that rust, then either oil it, or use some boiled linseed oil on it... Anything to keep moist air from getting to it. Looking good so far 👍
I was thinking 0000 wool, clean up, then perhaps some clear sealer on the bottom to seal out the moist air?
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#21

Post by Tgarner01 »

BryanWP wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:10 pm It's got a 5 7 date clearly legible (in person anyhow) which I believe makes it a May 1937?
That would be July 1935. I like your idea on the clear sealer.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#22

Post by BryanWP »

Tgarner01 wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:19 pm
BryanWP wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:10 pm It's got a 5 7 date clearly legible (in person anyhow) which I believe makes it a May 1937?
That would be July 1935. I like your idea on the clear sealer.
So, that was when they were doing the reverse numbering on month year (meaning year followed by month), and year having only the last digit?
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#23

Post by Tgarner01 »

BryanWP wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:54 pm
Tgarner01 wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:19 pm
BryanWP wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:10 pm It's got a 5 7 date clearly legible (in person anyhow) which I believe makes it a May 1937?
That would be July 1935. I like your idea on the clear sealer.
So, that was when they were doing the reverse numbering on month year (meaning year followed by month), and year having only the last digit?
The majority of Coleman lanterns from late 1924-late 40's had single digit year stamps on the left and month stamps on the right... A few exceptions of course for reasons unbeknownst to collectors. Coleman Canada avoided the confusion with double digit year stamps from the beginning... But that's no fun 😁
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#24

Post by Hot_Diggity »

'35 220B? Not a bad guess, working from memory. I might have to go buy a lottery ticket.
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Re: Can you identify this lantern?

#25

Post by BryanWP »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:19 am '35 220B? Not a bad guess, working from memory. I might have to go buy a lottery ticket.
Better hurry brother. They going to shut down the buy pretty soon!
Just for the record. I told the girl at the store to sell me the winning one for tonight already. You might want to wait until the powerball drawing to be on the safe side!🤣
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