Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

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BryanWP
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Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#1

Post by BryanWP »

Has anyone run into a fount with a pump tube so corroded that even after removing the corrosion the resulting pitting in the tube damages the leather pump cup when trying to pump up the fount?
Smeone has to have run into this before so, I'm asking is there some way to work around it to correct the issue, or is the fount garbage as a result and needs to be replaced?
Any ideas?
Is it possible to reline the pump tube so it is smooth to salvage the fount?
I may be grasping at straws but an old fount saved is an old fount back in action, right?
Edited: Thanks for the great advice and ideas you have successfully used.
I didn't want to invest it the honing tool at the moment, nor did I have any wooden dowels laying around.
My make do for the moment was a search for a long enough bolt laying around which I cut the head off of.
Then wrapped with scrub pad material surrounded with some 1000 grit wet/dry finishing sandpaper and a squirt of chain and cable lubricant .
Much better than it was!
Going ahead and going back through every part and will then reassemble.
Although some lessons like checking, testing, and correcting things BEFORE dealing with the cosmetics like external derusting, sanding priming and painting like I did on this particular one can be costly/ frustrating, it's a lesson I'll remember, and my process will be more effective.
Put the fuel valve back in place, and made sure I had a good gasket in the 3 piece cap. Put a different leather cup on and checked for pressure.
Nada. Nothing. Put a good 3 piece cap off my 200A on it. (Still had pressure in it's fount but, I opened it slowly.) Still wouldn't take pressure. I had already gone through and cleaned the f/a tube again before putting it back on the valve assembly and dropping it in the tank.
So, decided to try a water test, submerging everything except the pump assembly itself. No bubbles.
Okay. Decided to do a sort of reverse test, and poured water into the pump tube itself.
YIKES! I could eventually fill the tank through the tube itself. Kept draining into the tank until only leaving about 1/2" of water in the bottom of the tube. Never could visually see a hole though. Just lots of air bubbles as it went through the side of the pump tube somewhere.
Now I see how collectors end up with numerous parts. :D
Looks like I'll be fountless on my 1955 220 E but, I gained some great experience that I'll be applying in the future!
Thanks again for all the knowledge you've shared with me!
Bryan

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Last edited by BryanWP on Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
Brightlight
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#2

Post by Brightlight »

Have you tried a brake hone to smooth the surface?
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BryanWP
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#3

Post by BryanWP »

No, I haven't. I was putting it out there to get some ideas on ways to deal with the issue. Is that a problem that you've run into in the past?
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#4

Post by zoomkat »

"Has anyone run into a fount with a pump tube so corroded that even after removing the corrosion the resulting pitting in the tube damages the leather pump cup when trying to pump up the fount?"

You should be able to smooth out the tube inside with a gizmo similar to the below us a dowel, scrub pad and wet auto body sand paper. A smooth tube should not be tearing up leather pump cups.
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Hot_Diggity
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#5

Post by Hot_Diggity »

+1 on the brake hone.

I had to use that technique on Rusty. But before I got it smoothed out I had made a functional cup to replace the one that had become orange dust. After I chipped the mud dauber nests out of the inside and pulled all the old vines off the bail and vent it turned out to be a fine user for the deck.
Rusty.jpg
Old antifreeze jug plastic and cardboard sandwich actually made a functional, although less than 100% efficient expedient pump cup. With the rust pimples that had been growing in the tube, I was amazed that none had gone through, but after a few passes with a little ball hone it was smooth and solid.

Hope your pump tube recovery goes as smoothly. :D
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Tgarner01
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#6

Post by Tgarner01 »

Berry hone's will smooth the sharp edges of the rust pits without removing too much other material. But for a one time deal sand paper on a wooden dowel would get you by.

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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#7

Post by Daryl22 »

Used this brake cylinder hone on the one rusty pump tube I have come across. Won't remove pitting but will get cylinder walls smooth. Should be able make a workable tool with sandpaper a dowel. With smooth walls should not have problem.

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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#8

Post by Brightlight »

I’ve also used the sandpaper and dowel if you don’t have a brake hone. However I’d make sure the pump tube isn’t rusted through by doing a dunk test before putting a lot of effort into it.
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#9

Post by MotorcycleDan »

I have used a brake hone like Daryl is showing with good results. Brought both lanterns back to life that I used it on. I have a 200a Christmas on the bench now that is going to get this treatment.
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#10

Post by Hot_Diggity »

:D Just don't forget to let the hone stop inside the tube and hold the stones in while you slide them out. I've seen several hone disasters. Best to learn from the mistakes of others. 8-)
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#11

Post by zoomkat »

Just depending on finger size, one probably can just use a piece of paper on the finger to remove anything on the tube wall that would damage a pump cup. I'd try this before buying/making any special tooling.
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#12

Post by WYSIWYG »

zoomkat wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:37 pm Just depending on finger size, one probably can just use a piece of paper on the finger to remove anything on the tube wall that would damage a pump cup. I'd try this before buying/making any special tooling.
Just how long and how skinny are your fingers??
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#13

Post by zoomkat »

"Just how long and how skinny are your fingers??"

I typically wear XL sized gloves and it is no problem for me, but YMMV due to your own situation/condition.
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#14

Post by Old Cat »

Bryan, I’m sorry to here your fount is compromised. I just went through that on a 220E. I happened to have an extra laying around, and I’m in the process of repainting it. I was on OCP last night and Rob had two listed for a fair price. You might check out OCP.
Good luck.
Thanks,
Dan

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BryanWP
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#15

Post by BryanWP »

Old Cat wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:15 pm Bryan, I’m sorry to here your fount is compromised. I just went through that on a 220E. I happened to have an extra laying around, and I’m in the process of repainting it. I was on OCP last night and Rob had two listed for a fair price. You might check out OCP.
Good luck.
Thanks for the info Dan.
Bryan
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#16

Post by Brightlight »

Brightlight wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:49 pm However I’d make sure the pump tube isn’t rusted through by doing a dunk test before putting a lot of effort into it.
Sorry to be right, but I’ve had similar founts…

PS, I use one of the Amish filler caps that has a schrader valve installed to check for leaking CV or pump tubes. With pump and air stem removed, install the cap and use a hand pump to add pressure. Pour some CF down the pump tube and look for bubbles.
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BryanWP
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Re: Any work arounds on a corroded pump tube?

#17

Post by BryanWP »

Brightlight wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:38 pm
Brightlight wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:49 pm However I’d make sure the pump tube isn’t rusted through by doing a dunk test before putting a lot of effort into it.
Sorry to be right, but I’ve had similar founts…

PS, I use one of the Amish filler caps that has a schrader valve installed to check for leaking CV or pump tubes. With pump and air stem removed, install the cap and use a hand pump to add pressure. Pour some CF down the pump tube and look for bubbles.
Yep. You were right on that one Cole.
I already found another fount (a 1/54) on the bay from a guy running 100% rating, and a money back guarantee so, after checking it when it arrives. if it proves solid I'm gonna do a FFR since I already have all the stuff. A little time lost on the first one but, the experience is priceless!
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#18

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Sorry to hear about your fount Bryan. Not much that can be done with that without doing advanced restoration. I do wonder if one could install a permanent pump tube sleeve with JB Weld or something as a sealer. I've seen founts where the tube was completely replaced, but that requires a repaint and lots of work. I'm sure somebody has sleeved a pump tube. Fortunately on a 220 it's easy enough to find a nice fount. Maybe one with a complete lantern attached. That's how we end up with so many spares.

Pump tube.jpg
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#19

Post by BryanWP »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:09 am Sorry to hear about your fount Bryan. Not much that can be done with that without doing advanced restoration. I do wonder if one could install a permanent pump tube sleeve with JB Weld or something as a sealer. I've seen founts where the tube was completely replaced, but that requires a repaint and lots of work. I'm sure somebody has sleeved a pump tube. Fortunately on a 220 it's easy enough to find a nice fount. Maybe one with a complete lantern attached. That's how we end up with so many spares.


Pump tube.jpg
Already found another fount that's a year earlier with a money back guarantee so, didn't go wrong on that selection. Ding free at that.
I haven't tossed the faulty fount so, I may try to make a insert sleeve just to try out the theory. If successful maybe we can add that to the list of ways to bring it back to life? :D
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#20

Post by Davao2 »

Got a thought for deep pitted pump tube repair, would be to slip a metal sleeve inside the pump tube .
Just a thought.!
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BryanWP
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#21

Post by BryanWP »

Davao2 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:04 am Got a thought for deep pitted pump tube repair, would be to slip a metal sleeve inside the pump tube .
Just a thought.!
Yes. We have been discussing that as far as I know is an unproven concept that I'm going to be experimenting with to see if it can be done, and proven to be safe.
That's a sketchy location for a failure under pressure if the lantern is lit too, I'll bet.
Won't stop me from trying though. All testing will of course be held outdoors!
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#22

Post by Davao2 »

Ok , so i can see a possible issue with some types of metals, brass or copper is option , if pits are so deep to cause concern of pin holes not many options left besides extreme open fount repair pump tube easiest get another fount.
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#23

Post by MYN927 »

BryanWP wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:21 am
Davao2 wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:04 am Got a thought for deep pitted pump tube repair, would be to slip a metal sleeve inside the pump tube .
Just a thought.!
Yes. We have been discussing that as far as I know is an unproven concept that I'm going to be experimenting with to see if it can be done, and proven to be safe.
That's a sketchy location for a failure under pressure if the lantern is lit too, I'll bet.
Won't stop me from trying though. All testing will of course be held outdoors!
You might want to re-ascertain that the pump tube was really leaking water into the fount through its side wall and not through the checkvalve or any point around the soldered joint at the bottom of the tube.
The steel ball in the checkvalve wouldn't prevent any liquids in the pump tube from draining into the fount. I used to pour hot lye solution, acetone and other solvents into the pump tube in order to clear any gunk in the check valve, all the way through the snorkel air tube.
Anyway, if there is really a crack or pin hole on the pump's wall, the idea of sliding in a metal tube or sleeve and bonding it with the pump tube with fuel-resistant epoxy is a good one. The idea seems simple enough but the actual execution of it needs to be done with meticulous care.
A seamless, thin-walled brass or stainless steel tube is preferable. It should span the entire length of the tube, with the end touching the bottom of the pump tube. You'd need to ensure that the epoxy isn't too runny or it might creep into and mess up the check valve. You would also need to make a new pump cap that'd fit into the inner diameter of the sleeve. If all goes well, you would need to use a smaller leather cup for the pump. Example, if the inner diameter of the existing pump tube is 13/16", you would likely end up getting a sleeved repair size that approximates the diameter of a Petromax lantern pump. It'd still work but might require more strokes to get the fount up to pressure.
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Re: Corroded pump tube? EDITED: Unhappy ending!

#24

Post by Davao2 »

Had a check valve so pitted it was like check ball had fallen out.

If using a sleeve in pump tube then epoxy take check valve out point pump tube down ward till glue dries.

Yet if the pump tube is that far gone i would only think the fount is just as bad shape. Although i have not had privilege yet getting lantern in that bad of shape the worst one i got, i chased it 7 months make it run right , its like new now thats my 2 lantern i bought (i wondered why selling so cheap he would not say) his loss my gain. , learned alot on that lantern now i have many more.

Billy
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62 228e -- 72 220f
63 200a -- 79 220j
67 200a -- 94 414
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