Photographing lanterns--the importance of lenses and f stops.

[Gunhippie]

I often field questions from some of you all regarding shooting images of lanterns. I apologize to those using cell phone cameras, as much of this won't apply to most of you.

This is a demo of different focal lengths and aperture settings in taking pictures.



I tried to keep the relative size of the lanterns and the angle I shot from the same in all pictures.

The first pic is at 24mm. The lantern is distorted and seems insignificant against the busy background. The second picture is at 70mm and the lantern now dominates the picture, and there is no distortion in the shape of the lantern.

Now aperture or f stop. The pictures above are shot at f16. I chose to focus on the direction disk, but everything in the pictures is in focus.



These two are at the same focal lengths as above, but shot at f2.8. Now the background is completely out of focus. Obviously, this setting is too shallow, as not all the lantern is in focus. I usually shoot at f5.6 for a nice compromise.

So my advice for shooting lanterns (or people or cars or whatever where you want your subject to dominate the image) is to use a mild- to mid-telephoto lens and open it up to the smallest number f stop that will get your subject in focus.

I hope this was of some use to someone!

[RobSchroff]

Are you supposed to be working? ?

[Newfie]

I use a Samsung Galaxy S10e phone.

Even though I haven't used it yet, the camera has a pro mode which will allow for aperture adjustments.

[Gunhippie]

Nah, Rob, that's tomorrow. Today I'm working on the carb for a friend's '53 Ford NAA.

Shane--That's why I wrote "most of you" regarding cell phone users. I'm aware that some cell phones have telephoto ("portrait") lenses, too, and some even have physical zooms.

With a cell camera with only digital zoom, it will still benefit you to get back from the subject and zoom in. This will have largely the same effect as using a longer lens--less distortion of the subject and less dominance of the BG.

[Dubblbubbl]

Good info man, if I ever break out the real camera this info will come in handy. I’m guessing you’re set for aperture priority, or full manual mode? But it’s too easy to take a pic with the iPad and upload, no file moves necessary. Just a quick edit to get the file in the right orientation for upload to the forum.

[arizonacamper]

Now I know how most people feel when I start talking diesel. my eyes glazed over pretty quick there and I have absolutely no idea what you were talking about!
Shawn

[Scrubjay]

For me when I'm shooting anything I either use a neutral background such I did with this vintage diving gear:



or, I use a background that puts the subject in an idealized setting:









I prefer using a tripod, yes I know fancy equipment, but my hands shake too much to get a clear shot. I also make a point to keep my hands out of the shot because they are too distracting to the subject matter.

JB

[Gunhippie]

Rob--Aperture priority about 90% of the time. For shooting a lit lantern in daylight, I'll use Manual and meter off a neutral BG, card, or something else of known value--like the palm of my hand.

JB--I'm generally just too lazy to haul out the tripod, but I really should do so more often. A tripod gives you the stability to really look at the entire composition. Nice work, BTW!

[Bob1774]

I love how you guys use your Instamatics to take great shots...Do you use cube flashes, or bars?

[Gunhippie]

Flashpowder, man! Nothing like it!

[Bob1774]

[QUOTE username=Gunhippie userid=4432969 postid=1312776409]Flashpowder, man! Nothing like it!Miss the days of using my Rolleiflex. Hearing f stops, film speed and depth of field must be as foreign as comparing silklites to LED's.

[BSAGuy]

Nice tips, Timm and great shots, JB.

[DougA]

I cut my photography teeth with my dad's Argus C3 35mm. All manual, all the time, so you learn a lot of these details the hard way, ? I took some great pix with that camera.

[Whitegas Extraordinaire]

The resolution limitations of the forum do not do general photography justice. A maximum image size gets reduced to less than 200 kB!

[grob]

I learned photography old school when I was in art school around 1975. My teacher was an old gentleman who had developed the color system for the 4 color rotogravure press at the Denver Post, which produced those color Sunday magazines. He was also 1st chair violin for the Toronto Symphony when he was young. We had him over to a friends dark room in the evenings and plied him with wine. Quite a nice man and learned a lot!

The basic thing here is that short medium to wide angle lenses (18-35) have a short focal length and result in out of focus parts of the photo and can distort the image (fisheye). Long focal length lenses (75-200+) have a longer focal length and have more of the image in focus. For this you need to be further away from the subject and zoom in.

I am using a Nikon SLR Digital and a Canon Powershot small camera. I have not found a way to manually focus the Nikon as yet. It is pretty much push the button halfway down to focus and let it do it's thing. Sometimes hard to get what you want.

In the past I have had an AGFA Mark IV graphics camera, for shooting art for design production. 14 X 24 film plane with vacuum seal and 4 halogen lights with cranks for the bellows and the art plane to size and focus. It took a large closet / darkroom to house it. I also art directed many photo-shoots in my day.
Gar

[grunts]

What are you trying to sign people up for Photography School?

[grob]

Oh no, but I have to laugh when I see a stadium at night with all the flashes going off! The light of a flash only carries a couple meters, so they are only getting a photo of the back of someones head. Knowledge goood!
Gar
Hey... 1 more post and ya'll owe me a beer!

[Gunhippie]

[QUOTE username=Whitegas Extraordinaire userid=5730955 postid=1312776528]The resolution limitations of the forum do not do general photography justice. A maximum image size gets reduced to less than 200 kB!
Use a third-party hosting site. I use Flickr. I can put images up there of any size I like. Left-click on my images above will make them bigger. Out of courtesy, I don't post images that are larger than the average monitor--no one likes a picture they have to scroll through. If you look at the size of my Flickr images over the years, you can track the average monitor size--except I have to upsize sometime soon to keep up.

Gar--We're about the same vintage! I had a darkroom in the basement as a kid.

Nikon camera usually have two choices for manual focus, one on the camera body and one on the lens. If it's a consumer-grade camera, the manual option may be buried in a menu.

The difference in OOF backgrounds between wide and tele isn't a difference in DOF, but in relative distances between the camera, subject, and BG. In my images above, I'm very close to the subject in the wide shots, so the BG is effectively farther away. In the tele images, I'm back several more feet, making the difference in distance between the subject and BG smaller.

Yeah, that flash thing has always amused me. I think it's a combination of ignorance of how a flash--or light in general--works, combined with an inability to learn how to turn the flash off. If the stadium lighting is bright enough for video or film cameras, it's bright enough for your cell!

There is one place where I'll use a flash well beyond its effective range. That's when shooting portraits or weddings, where I want to catch that glimmer in the eye that makes folks look alive! Now, squinch your cheeks up, and say cheese!

Smoke break is over--back to work....

[kb0hae]

Good points Timm. My digital camera has manual and semi-auto settings in addition to the automatic settings, but it seems to only have 2 different apertures available. It does pretty well within its limitations for a camera that is now probably 7 or 8 years old. I started out with an old Kodak plastic box camera when I was 12, and moved on to some old Argus 35mm cameras that I got at yard sales, and had to use a separate light meter. Eventually I got a Fujifilm manual SLR, and auto-flash, and several lenses.

[Outback]

Thanks for all of the tips which will help to getting a good photo. One thing that eludes me is how to stop flare from the mantle when doing night shots.

[Gunhippie]

[QUOTE username=grunts userid=5950102 postid=1312783314]What are you trying to sign people up for Photography School?
Nah, but a little on-line study wouldn't hurt any....

Martin--I've seen cameras with only two apertures--Landscape and Portrait--but those were really cheapo old film cameras that literally had two holes cut in an aperture plate behind the lens! I hate to say this, but maybe read the manual....

[kb0hae]

@Outback Using the flash or having more lights sources than just the lantern may help. Maybe having another lantern lit behind you and to one side or the other? Just a thought...

[Gunhippie]

[QUOTE username=Outback userid=5746792 postid=1312783908]Thanks for all of the tips which will help to getting a good photo. One thing that eludes me is how to stop flare from the mantle when doing night shots.
Just ain't happening! Having a very bright, nearly point-source light in the frame will always cause flare. What you're calling flare is probably ghosting, multiple, sometime rainbow images of the light source in the image. Flare is a loss of contrast throughout the image. A better lens will have less flare but will still have ghosting.

Here's an image from a $1,600 Nikkor lens:



No flare, but lots of ghosting.

About the only way to get away from ghosting is to have the point-source light at about the same level as the ambient light--lanterns shot in daylight don't ghost.

Here's an example of this:



I'm far enough away for the lanterns to be point-sources, but if there is any ghosting, it's dimmer than the ambient light.

Another option is to get close enough to the lantern that it doesn't approach a point-source.

A little blurry--it had been drinking on and off all night--but no ghosting:



Of course, keeping your lens clean will help a lot, especially with actual flare!

[Weirdnerd]

[QUOTE username=Bob1774 userid=2212201 postid=1312776372] I love how you guys use your Instamatics to take great shots...Do you use cube flashes, or bars?[/QUOTE]

I am using a Zeiss Ikon Bob 510 from 1928, what is this newfangled instamatic thing you talk about?

[austin65uri]

Thanks Timm. Another way in dealing with crappy photos is to just post them and then add "sorry for the poor pics, don't know what happened". ?

[Scrubjay]

Gee-whiz Timm, it looks like the young lady's face just exploded! ?



As a painter, I always try to set my shots up so they have an aesthetically pleasing quality:





One of my favorite places to shoot is my studio floor with natural lighting because I can get very dramatic shadows!



My "drug of choice" is Adobe Photoshop where I can stitch images together:





I had a lot of fun making that last one ?

JB

[Gunhippie]

Stitching images?



23 shots. 230 degrees. Looks much better when it's 3 feet long and framed.

Then there's HDR:

[Outback]

[QUOTE username=kb0hae userid=2250259 postid=1312783930]@Outback Using the flash or having more lights sources than just the lantern may help. Maybe having another lantern lit behind you and to one side or the other? Just a thought...[/QUOTE]

Will try that tonight and see what happens. There must be a way as have seen plenty of photos put up without star type glare or ghosting. Am using a Canon 24-70mm zoom 1:4 red ring lens.

[CaptainFantastic]

Good post Timm, and others. Thanks.

I have no control whatsoever over my main photography subjects, lighting, situation, distance or pretty much anything really. For this I use single shot, 100% manual, high ISO, wide aperture, spot metering, and AF. Lenses range from 16-35mm, 24-70mm, 70-200mm and 300mm. All have f/2.8 max.

Also, I use Lightroom for managing the many images and adjustments. Sometimes Photoshop, but that is normally for just playing around. I am holding back on my Mac OS upgrade as I think I'm going to lose the local LR and CS4 apps, or could run into trouble, and I really don't like the annual subscription model...

I used to have Flickr-Pro but gave that up 2 years ago. I still have 12,000 images on there, and hit 1 million views back in 2016, no clue where it is now.

[MotorcycleDan]

[QUOTE username=grob userid=6422053 postid=1312783223]

I am using a Nikon SLR Digital and a Canon Powershot small camera. I have not found a way to manually focus the Nikon as yet. It is pretty much push the button halfway down to focus and let it do it's thing. Sometimes hard to get what you want.

Gar
If you have a consumer model Nikon, turn the program knob on the top left of the camera from the green camera symbol to the M symbol. That is your manual mode. When in manual mode, then you use the thumb and finger knobs in front and behind the shutter trigger to set your F stop and shutter speed. Your light meter will be inside the eye viewfinder at the bottom.

For focus, you can manual focus even when in Auto mode. There should be a switch on the lens that is M/A or M. In the M/A mode, you can focus manual with the outer focus ring or by pushing the shutter button half way down. If you focused manually, then just push the shutter button to take the picture. The camera will not auto focus because you went by the auto focus position so fast, the camera did not have time to do it.

If switched to M, then you use the outer focus ring on the lens only. You can still use the auto focus when the body is in manual mode. I turn the focus dot on to single and then move it around with the toggle ring in the back of the camera. You just push the shutter button down half way and then you can use the ring to move the focus dot to the spot that you want focused.

[Northman49]

Point, shoot, good enough for me.

[Gunhippie]

Amazing work, Ian!

[Scrubjay]

This is so obviously a faked image Ian, why are you trying to fool us! Geeze, Ace Frehley is like twice their size...


Just messin' with you mate! ? Very nice work sir! After watching a few vids on conspiracy-theories, I had to give you some cr@p: hopefully you laughed at my stupidity ? Laughing is good, especially right now--SIGH!

JB

[Flyboyfwa]

I came here to learn about coleman stuff and who would have imagined all the other great things I've learned from the folks here. Thanks for the info.