Leather pump cups from scratch-Follow up W/pics

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#1

Post by Chucker »

Here you go Lee. Tools and supplies; 1 in. dia. galvanized pipe w/caps ground sharp, 1/4 in. punch (for center hole); scissors; 3/4in. copper cap, drilled center; SS hex bolt 1 1/2in.; 2xSS washers; scrap leather.





 photo 046jpg_zps4ccb5463.jpg
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#2

Post by Chucker »

Here's a close up of the copper cup with wet leather ready to be tightened down. Leave for 24 hours.

 photo 047jpg_zpsf8ccff63.jpg
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#3

Post by Motor7 »

Good idea...I like!
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#4

Post by nomis1 »

What a great idea. Do they work well?
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#5

Post by Chucker »

Yes, they work very well. A lot depends on the thickness of the leather. Some Coleman pump leathers were almost 1/16th thick so there is lot of wiggle room. And even if your leather blank isn't exactly circular in shape you can trim it at any stage to fit.

If you go to push the pump into the lantern and the leather starts to buckle around the edge you have leather too large for that lantern; just trim it a little until it stops buckling or try a thinner piece of leather.

Some old AGM's, Akron's, tend to be touchy with what they like. Experiment, right? I store them with very little oil.
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#6

Post by sleecjr »

Very cool. Time to get building
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#7

Post by Chucker »

Bob, thanks I'll leave it up to the mods of course but I can go step by step if it will be helpful.


STEPS:
1. Select leather. Use leather that is top grain with a rough side also. The rough side will be the side in contact with the pump tube.

2. Purchase or fabricate a 1 1/16th in. punch from 1in. dia. steel pipe 1ft. long. Cap the pipe so you can hit it with a hammer. Grind down the inner surface to a sharp edge with a cone shaped stone from a Dremel type tool. Punch out the leather. Don't worry if your punch does not go through the leather, it will leave a trace mark after hitting it with a hammer and you can cut that with scissors. NOTE: A 1 in. punch may be very close to the neoprene pump cups but I haven't narrowed that application down yet. I recall having to trim one of these down a bit to fit my red 286 a couple of months ago.

3. IF YOU HAVE A NON-STANDARD CUP NEED: Trace the diameter of a current pump cup from your GPA (assuming you have one) onto aluminum flashing (not shown) or similar including marking the center hole. Cut the template out with snips or heavy scissors. Punch or cut the center hole out of the template. Use this to trace on the leather and cut out. Cut as many as you have the need. I usually cut 6-7 and I'm done in one week and it will take me a couple months to use them up.

4. You can use the aluminum template to mark the center hole in all your cup leathers. Use a 1/4in. hole punch. If you are good at eye-balling it, go ahead. Again, leather is very forgiving.

5. COPPER CAP. Take a 3/4 in. dia. copper pipe cap and determine dead center. I'm not a plumber but the actual I.D. of the cup is 7/8ths. I suspect it is designed to accept 3/4" copper pipe so it is labeled as 3/4in.? Drill it out with a 1/16 bit then 1/16th increments until you have it out to 5/16ths.

6. The SS bolt is 1 1/2in. long and 1/4" dia. and 7/16ths hex head (12mm?). The SS washers are 3/4in. dia. and the center hole is 5/16ths. Shove the bolt up into the cup from the bottom. Next I usually lock the hex head in my bench vice. Wet the leather with warm tap water for 1-2 minutes minimum, with smooth side UP thread the leather onto the bolt from the top (See pics). Place washers onto leather, thread hex nut on by hand and finish by using a deep well 7/16 socket. I usually center the leather a couple of times at the top of the cup before I tighten it up.

7. Let it sit over night; 24 hours is good. If you have some binding in the leather or 'ripples' on the side simply soak in warm water again but longer and add two or three more washers. Repeat final process. Remove nut and washers then place the leather, lightly oiled, into whatever container you want. You may need to pluck or push, with a small screwdriver or awl, the leather out of the cup as it may stick. Repeat as necessary.
Chuck
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#8

Post by Scouterjan »

thanks Bob, great tutorial. I have heard that saddlesoap softens the leather better than water, I guess I will try making some cups as I am running out of them
Jan


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#9

Post by Deanofid »

Good thread, Chuck! This should be especially handy for making some
of the off-sized cups in non-Coleman brands.
Does Neatsfoot oil offer anything for forming the leather cups?

This thread should surely be put into the archives.
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#10

Post by thezman »

I''m Larry most of the time, but today I'll be Chuck.

When the water dries, the leather will retain the cup shape.

With Neetsfoot, the leather won't dry and probably won't hold it's form as well.

The real Chuck can chime in here with his own theory.
I'm Larry most of the time.
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#11

Post by dbosch »

cup7.JPG

Stay tuned, it's easier than you think. Featured in ColemanTech in the next ICCC newsletter.
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#12

Post by drew23 »

dbosch wrote: cup7.JPG

Stay tuned, it's easier than you think. Featured in ColemanTech in the next ICCC newsletter.

What about us that do not get the newsletter? Not a member, Yet. This sounds like a good reason to sign up huh.

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#13

Post by Deanofid »

I have some of those green ones from Dan. They work great!
Plus, they're festive.
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#14

Post by Chucker »

Hi Larry (or Chuck II) and thanks for the feedback guys. As Larry points out the water on the leather probably is more effective at shaping the leather as it dries. The bigger question might be to oil or not to oil when it's formed. I use a little 3-in-1 oil or Marvel Mystery Oil because I'm typically going to use them in a month or two and they won't loose enough shape to worry about. Too much oil and I believe they will loose form - but is it enough loss to worry about?

I'd use Neatsfoot oil or even Sno-Seal for long-term storage. No one carries Neatsfoot in this small town so I'd have to order it off the web. No hurry since even olive oil will work when its the only stuff you have.
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#15

Post by dbosch »

I have left mine dry for months and they don't deteriorate or lose shape. The same goes for NOS ones that I've found in rat holes and the like that have obviously been dry for decades. I'd leave them dry until you use them as keeping them moist will attract dirt. As long as they are sealed up and kept dry, they shouldn't have any issues.
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#16

Post by Loganeffecto »

Extremely helpful!
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#17

Post by Deanofid »

Chuck, if you want a small bottle of neatsfoot oil, Jack at Lonestar Lantern has it
in small bottles for a couple-three bucks. He's on ebay as lonestarlantern. That's
where I got mine. A little goes a long way, and it's the traditional oil for leather.
"Made from cows, for cows.." [smile]
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#18

Post by Chucker »

Dean, for some reason I just found that VERY funny! "Made from cows, for cows?"[rofl] Thanks for the laugh!!! I've purchased from Jack before - good guy and I will get some from him.

Dan B., storing them dry...yup, they will last. I'm inclined to use a little SnoSeal for long term storage. May not be necessary but that's just my inclination.
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#19

Post by dbosch »

I found a big ole bottle of neatsfoot at the baseball section around the catching mitts at Academy or Wally world (can't remember). Another place to search.
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#20

Post by Deanofid »

Chuck, I was looking for some neatsfoot oil on the web once, and besides the retailers
there was a link to some general info, and something from some older books, too. I
didn't know why it was called neatsfoot, but reading about it, the book said "neats",
or "neat" meant to do with cattle or cows, and the oil was rendered from cow's
shin or foot bones.

So, git out thar 'n round up them neats. And, I like that neatboy hat your wearin', pard.
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#21

Post by drew23 »

OK, I propose a new rule. No more homemade tools or parts. Now I have to find the way to build pump cups. Does it ever end?



As far as the leather 1.5-2mm range leather falls into the 4/5 oz leather thickness. 1oz equals 1/64" so 4/5oz would be fairly close to the 1.5-2mm that is recommended most places. When buying leather from a leather shop they usually list it by weight instead of thickness. Just my 2¢
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#22

Post by Rogue35 »

If anyone has a Hobby Lobby near them all of their leather stuff is 30% off right now. I just picked up 3lbs of scrap leather for a little over $6. I just started on my first 3 cups and I'm thinking I can make at least 100 pump cups out of all this leather if not more. I also picked up a leather punch set for a little over $4.
-Cain-

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#23

Post by Chucker »

CAIN! You are rockin' on those pump cups! Yes, many standard size punch sets can be had wherever fine China punches are sold.

I should probably use some of my holiday vacation time to follow suit but it's just been so cold. I spend the first 30 minutes of my 'hobby time' in my garage just getting it heated -- to 40 deg.F!
Chuck
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#24

Post by Rogue35 »

I like to have hobbies WITHIN hobbies! lol I've got a few with the neoprene cups I'd like to change out as they suck in this cold weather.
-Cain-

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#25

Post by Rogue35 »

If anyone is thinking about doing this I just made 3 and replaced the neoprene in my sons birthday 288 and it works like a charm! Thanks Chuck!
-Cain-

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#26

Post by Chucker »

Fuzzfarmer wrote: Using this method, how do you "pluck" the leather and washers out after its dry?[sCo_idk]

I unthread the hex nuts, remove the bolt, then use a small screw driver and push up from the bottom through the hole. Sometimes I use an awl to push it up.
Chuck
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#27

Post by Junkboy999 »

Ohhhh I like the green ones as well...
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#28

Post by Chucker »

ChuckDynasty wrote: Another thread I'm saving to pdf for future reference. Thanks Chuck!

No problem...Chuck. [iconbeer]
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#29

Post by serdar »

Wow Chuck! So far I've been lucky with leather pump cups. But as the collections grows I'm sure I'll turn to this as a reference.
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#30

Post by Rfieldbuilds »

Chucker. Revive on this old thread. Can you repost the first two images sine PB has nixed them? That'd be helpful. Need cups, dont want to wait for shipping. Million other things to do today, but lanterns have a way of working themselves into the honey do list when I can get away wih it.
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#31

Post by Chucker »

Hello Rand? I don't recall ever using FB but I may have. I think after so long images get nixed here automatically to keep from taking up too much space on the forum.

Anyway - we have just purchased a new computer and I will have to ask my step-son to pull those off the old one. I may have them on my work puter as well and I'll look tomorrow.

The pics were just a pic of scrap leather, ss bolt and washers, 3/4 in. copper end cap, a punch I ground of of 1 in. galvanized pipe, and heavy scissors. Not a big help I know but that what I used.

I'm glad to answer any questions about the tools, materials, and process if you want to PM me.
Chuck
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#32

Post by Rfieldbuilds »

Ok. Thats helpful. Yeah, it looks like they check out ywere published yo this site from Photo Bucket rather than Favebook if that helps. Check out the first two photos in this thread. They are missing. Thank You in advance.





What sized ss washers might those have been? Std for 1/4” bolt? WAIT. now I see you used 3/4” Dia washers. Thank You.
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#33

Post by Chucker »

P.S. I only used a ss bolt and washers since the leather was to be soaked in water every time. Regular grade 5 steel bolt, nut, and washers is fine.
Chuck
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#34

Post by ke4ljh »

I am posting here because I need to make some pump cups that are no longer available. The photo bucket photos do not appear for me. Might there be an alternative for the photo's for this thread so we can all see the photo's. As time go's on I believe this thread will become more important for all of us.
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#35

Post by JimL »


Stephen,

The pictures are visible if you apply the fix for Firefox or Chrome. See the link in this thread:
http://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/post/photobucket-fix-for-chrome-and-ff-9286417?highlight=photobucket+fix&pid=1301950881
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#36

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Sweet! Thanks Chuck. Now that I know how to whip up a tool so easily I'll have to see how horsehide pump cups work. I was waiting for it to get cold, but you have renewed my interest.

I'm thinking the horsehide might last forever.
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#37

Post by Chucker »

Since "This post is too old to edit..." I'm uploading the pics again from my PC...Hope this helps.

045.jpg.jpg
047.jpg.jpg
046.jpg.jpg
Chuck
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#38

Post by SteveRetherford »

some time back now Dan Boschen sent me a few of his homemade leather pump cups . well i needed a 427 penis style pump cup yesterday . there a smaller diameter than regular pump cups . i found the baggie of em with Boschen written on the bag , and sure enough i found a little green pump cup that fits n worked perfectly !!! thanks again Dan !!!

cup7.JPG
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#39

Post by Chucker »

Dan is good people.

I'm thinking some of those Euro lantern pump cups fit the 427's as well - maybe Petromax or Vapalux, don't recall. Often you only need to enlarge the hole to make it work.
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#40

Post by Majicwrench »

My home-made pump cups don't look quite like those in Steve's post above.....

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