Who made Coleman stoves and lamps in Australia?

[Lamp_Doctor]

Matty .
You looked at the wrong price for a 242b its $5/95.
Will send up some reading glasses for you 5+.
So thats close to our price also depends on the stock market price of our dollar
at the time to .
Bob

[Tony Press]

Matty



Now, that iron ad is very interesting, being "All British and Australian" made in 1934. It may have been assembled in Australia; or partly made in Australia; or indeed manufactured here.



The speckled irons never really matched the US or Canadian livery (I don't know about UK).





On a related matter, the Australian Pound was pegged to the British Pound 1:1 until the early thirties, when the Australian Government devalued it relative to the British Pound. The new value was 1.25 Australian Pounds to 1 British Pound. Around 1931 the Australian Government significantly increased tariffs on many overseas manufactured goods. Before that time, along with a favoured tariff regime for Commonwealth countries, importing Coleman products from Canada and the UK would have been cheaper than from the USA. It may well have been relatively cheaper after the tariff increases, but I'm not sure.



The speckled Coleman instant-lite iron appears in the 1950s Coleman-Thomas catalogue, along with a Peerman iron sold by Thomas'.



I wonder whether an Australian company made parts or all of the irons under licence to Coleman?



Cheers



Tony

[Guff]

Matty. The term "All British" is also stamped on all the brass Handi lantern logo tags right through from early production to late production (1950's to late 1970's). Early on there may have been some British connection with the first Kero Pet mode, but certainly not later. If anything the early Handi Swift Lite lanterns(1940's) had an American AGM influence.
I did my schooling and grew up in the 50's and 60's and remember quite well the lack of confidence Australians had as a nation and the guilt of our convict past. Our educators tried to install in us "All things British" were the only good things, and we children had to speak and write like the British. As such the term "All British" was simply an advertising ploy at, and prior to that time, and you would see it stamped on a lot of consumer goods to let people know their product was better than other products. As such, I don't believe there is any British connection to the Coleman irons, so it may well be "All Australian" made.

Keith.

[Lamp_Doctor]

There were a number of coleman irons about then .
#3 #4 #4A last 2 had blue handles and base
Bob

[Guff]

Matty. You have to remember I'm easily convinced about many things, lol.

I'm not a researcher, so what I say in this topic is not evidenced based. However I do read everything the good gpa researchers, and that includes Tony and you, have to say about lanterns, lamps, stoves and irons. There is still a lot of unknowns with Australian gpa manufacturing and it will be you and other researchers who will eventually make the picture clearer. I will go back to concentrating on what I do best and that is finding old lanterns and bringing them back to life.

Keith.

[fireball501]

The sad thing is if Herb Ebendorf were still around he could answer some of these questions.

[Scouterjan]

back to the Irons. Not sure if a #1 & #2 & #3 were made in Canada as I haven't seen any but all other models were as far as I can tell made up into the latter years when US stopped producing them, Canada continued up into the 70's? so I thing they followed the same time line
#4 1929
#5 1929-1933
#4A 1930-1948
#8 1936
#8A 1937-1941

Then the newer series

your picture iron looks like a #4 so It very well could have been made in Australia. As far as I know the#4 Speckled Blue iron is unique to Aus. even the nuts and bolts threads are unique to this iron. I suppose it could have been made in Canada but I can't see 2 seperate production lines happening considering all the extra tooling involved. There is a member on the CCF who did a side by side comparison of the 2 models. I will try and find it
Jan

[Lamp_Doctor]

The Coleman paper I have here .
Coleman Quick-lite Co of australia
135 William St Melbourne
116 Harris St ,Ultimo, Sydney.
31 Bower Buldings,Charles St ,Adelaide
This paper is old and looking at the stuff in it is about 1926/1930
Lots of pictures etc looks to be USA stuff plus prices at the time in pounds etc
Looks like a lot of imported stuff here
CQ,BQ,HQ,PQ,No 333 Insect screen
LQ327 ,BLQ 327 LQ427 just out
# camp stove and stand MOdel 3 iron
Stove #322,#328
Cookers model 327. 326
Heater #4
Bob

[Guff]

Matty. Be assured, if I come across any hard evidence, like a made in Australia Coleman lantern dated much earlier than 1950, then Tony and you will be first to know. I will also continue to provide my 2 cents worth of comment on topics which catch my attention.
I'm just pulling back from getting involved in making "it could be this or it could be that" type comments on this topic, which only seem to perpetuate the discussion to keep it going full circle once again. I will wait for some hard evidence to emerge, and make comment on that.
As I said, that evidence will come from research being done by people like Tony, yourself and others who have posted on this subject. I commend all of you for your commitment and the time you put into doing that research.
I've got to get back to fixing my lanterns.

Keith.

[Tony Press]

Thanks, Winston. You have provided some interesting info/insights there.

One of the things that has been said to me is that the Coleman archive in the US has very little info on the Australian connection (this info from previous endeavours into finding out about Australian Coleman production).

So any more light shed from the US direction would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Tony

[Tony Press]

Matty

As your last (above) comments relate to a topic I started here, and at CCS and CPL, I hope you will bear with me while I take time to respond to some of the points you have made. It will take me some time and consideration, so my response won't be posted until later today or tomorrow.

Tony

[Tony Press]

Matty (and others participating in this subject)

1. My intention here is to get this subject back on track.

2. Matty, your contribution to this subject has been rich and varied - I, for one, do not want you to stop participating in it.

I will respond to some aspects of Matty's previous post as far as they relate to the Topic subject.

3. Matty said:

"Besides, the question is Whom Manufactured lamps... not when were they manufactured."

The Topic subject here, and at CSS and CPL was "Who Made Coleman Stoves and Lamps In Australia". In the opening paragraph of the topic I wrote:

"What do we know about who manufactured Coleman lamps and stoves in Australia? And when?"

My thoughts were that both "who" and "when" were intrinsically related. I still think so - so any information about time is relevant.

4. Matty said:

"I've actually withheld information as I've not wanted to de-rail the initial point of the topic. The problem is, the facts led me to believe that Coleman were manufacturing in Australia well before 1950, and knowing that, I felt that would be of help to find whom has indeed been manufacturing Coleman.... I can't say any other person has seen it from my point of view."

As pointed out in 4. above both "who" and "when" are part of the same subject. Information on manufacturing dates is relevant to the topic.


5. In an earlier post on this thread, Matty said:

"This is the third time I've posted this because I think it is crucial.

C, J. Thomas, of the Coleman QuickLite Coy. (Australia), said his company was purley Australian, but found it was necessary to import several lines from America. Apart from me, no one else seems to think that means anything significant. It is what has kept me in this argument. If that isn't saying we do manufacture in this country but not all our products, I'm not sitting here typing."

If I recall correctly the quote in bold is a report of evidence given at the 1930 Australian Tariff Inquiry. I take it at face value. By 1935 at least, Coleman Quicklite (Australia) was also importing Coleman lamps from Canada. So, what still isn't clear is whether any or what "lines" were being made/manufactured/assembled in Australia before or during the 1930s.

A Coleman ad from 11 Sept 1943, also supplied by Matty, says:

"COLEMAN
Coleman factories In U.S.A., Canada, and England now employ hundreds of men and women making millions of Aircraft and Munition parts.
This explains our lack of supplies every now and again,
BUT
We always carry large supplies of Genuine
COLEMAN MANTLES
Also Washers, Irons, Pumps, Burner Tubes, Burner Caps, Valves, Pyrex Globes, Mica Chimneys, Needles, Gas Tips, etc.
Always remember we record your name when we cannot supply, and in due time your required part is sent to you."

6. The Coleman Iron pictured above, seems a likely candidate for Australian manufacture of some parts or all of it - the stamped base, the different threaded bolts and the speckled enamel. I have no clear idea of the time frame in which they appear in Australia, but Matty's ad of 1934 (above) shows that it could have been manufactured, partly manufactured, or assembled in Australia that early. There are definitely Canadian Coleman irons here is Australia after 1936, but I don't think they were speckled.


If anyone wants to go back to my "Draft 1" posted above on 11/10/15 it is clear that I was not closing my mind to any evidence relating to Coleman in Australia, nor trying to shut anyone down. Other information on this topic can be found at CCS and CPL:

http://classiccampstoves.com/threads/who-manufactured-coleman-lamps-and-stoves-in-australia.30954/

http://www.classicpressurelamps.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/11681/post/60103/hl//fromsearch/1/


I now have a rather large table of information that comes from various posting in the three forums and from other information sent directly to me. I'll do a Draft 2 sometime after Easter when I'm back from rural NSW (on the hunt for lamps and stoves.... ).

Cheers

Tony

[warren]

Thanks to all that are supplying information. I find this interesting and I know how hard it is to track down 80-90 year old information.

Keep at it!

Thanks

[Guff]

Here is a photo I took at the Historical Village yesterday of an Australian Peerman pumpless iron PI/46 which was supposedly made in Melbourne circa 1948. They have a speckled green and white porcelain on them similar to the speckled blue and white on the Australian made Coleman 4A iron. Tony mentioned this iron above.
There is a sticker on the iron and under Peerman it has C.J. Thomas and Son Pty. Ltd. Would that be the same C.J. Thomas from the Coleman QuickLite Co.? Was this company making these irons or selling them only, prior to 1950? Were they making Coleman irons at the same time. More food for thought.

Keith.

[Tony Press]

Keith



I'll dig out the Peerman stuff in the Coleman-Thomas catalogue.



Cheers



Tony

[Scouterjan]

look at those valve wheels, so similar to Coleman, interesting
jan

[Scouterjan]

very interesting
Jan

[Tony Press]

Coleman and Peerman gasoline irons, from Colin's Coleman-Thomas catalogue (probably early 1950s) that was kindly sent to me by Warren :






The pics are not that great, but the Peerman has the CJ Thomas logo under the Peerman stamp.

The other non-Coleman kerosene or gasoline products in the catalogue are:

BDH "Wondercook" stoves; BDH "Ultraheat" heaters, hot water systems and wash coppers; and Wallis kerosene refrigerators.

There are also other products (not kerosene or gasoline) in the catalogue: Hills Hoists; Wilson drum pumps; Wallis eskys; and Westgate electrical hot water services.

Cheers

Tony