Epay 200A resurrection on Kerosene!!!

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A Seabee
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Epay 200A resurrection on Kerosene!!!

#1

Post by A Seabee »

I was jonesing for a 200A, so I bought this little red wonder, 1 59, my first. Probably payed too much, but it wasn't a fortune either. It hadn't run in God knows how long, but was complete. cleaned the varnish out with BBs and a mix of fuel, WD40, and Berrymans, washed her up a bit, cleaned the fuel air tube, stretched the spring. removed and cleaned the check valve, cleaned and oiled the leather. It's a bit hard to pump. does the pressure pipe ever get plugged?

here she is running on K
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Last edited by A Seabee on Wed May 12, 2021 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TwoCanoes
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#2

Post by TwoCanoes »

There's a snorkle attached at the base of the pump tube that opens near the top of the fount. The air you pump into the fount passes through this snorkle, and yes, it can get plugged. I had a plugged snorkle on a 400B stove. Soaked it overnight in denatured alcohol, and I was able to force the plug out the next morning just by pushing hard on the pump.
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A Seabee
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#3

Post by A Seabee »

TwoCanoes wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:44 am There's a snorkle attached at the base of the pump tube that opens near the top of the fount. The air you pump into the fount passes through this snorkle, and yes, it can get plugged. I had a plugged snorkle on a 400B stove. Soaked it overnight in denatured alcohol, and I was able to force the plug out the next morning just by pushing hard on the pump.
Thank you. If it doesn't get better on it's own I may give that a try. you just fill the fount with the alcohol?
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Bumpkin_95
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#4

Post by Bumpkin_95 »

Looks good. Try the alcohol or some carb cleaner in the pump barrel. Give it 1 pump to force it past the check valve and in to the snorkel then let it sit over night and try it the next day. Good luck and nice lantern.
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kellyblues
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#5

Post by kellyblues »

A Seabee wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:53 am
TwoCanoes wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:44 am There's a snorkle attached at the base of the pump tube that opens near the top of the fount. The air you pump into the fount passes through this snorkle, and yes, it can get plugged. I had a plugged snorkle on a 400B stove. Soaked it overnight in denatured alcohol, and I was able to force the plug out the next morning just by pushing hard on the pump.
Thank you. If it doesn't get better on it's own I may give that a try. you just fill the fount with the alcohol?
Do not fill it with alcohol. If it has the factory sealant on the floor of the fount alcohol will cause it to peel up. I usually put some cfuel in the pump tube and push it in the snorkel and let it sit. That and time usually takes car of it. I just did this on a 249. Literally started getting better the next day.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#6

Post by 1hpycmpr »

Looking nice and burning bright! You got that one looking good for a 62 year old lantern.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#7

Post by Kgam1020 »

That is a nice 200A! Looks nice and bright!
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#8

Post by TwoCanoes »

kellyblues wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:16 am Do not fill it with alcohol. If it has the factory sealant on the floor of the fount alcohol will cause it to peel up. I usually put some cfuel in the pump tube and push it in the snorkel and let it sit. That and time usually takes car of it. I just did this on a 249. Literally started getting better the next day.
Thanks for catching that, kellyblues. The stove I cleared with alcohol didn't have the fount lining, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but 200As from 1959 didn't, either. But you're right - I have used alcohol to try to remove the lining on lanterns in which the lining has started to blister. As Bumpkin_95 suggests, carb cleaner might be a good alternative too, but be sure not to get the carb cleaner on the fount's paint. It's a great paint remover.
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kellyblues
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#9

Post by kellyblues »

TwoCanoes wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:27 pm
kellyblues wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:16 am Do not fill it with alcohol. If it has the factory sealant on the floor of the fount alcohol will cause it to peel up. I usually put some cfuel in the pump tube and push it in the snorkel and let it sit. That and time usually takes car of it. I just did this on a 249. Literally started getting better the next day.
Thanks for catching that, kellyblues. The stove I cleared with alcohol didn't have the fount lining, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but 200As from 1959 didn't, either. But you're right - I have used alcohol to try to remove the lining on lanterns in which the lining has started to blister. As Bumpkin_95 suggests, carb cleaner might be a good alternative too, but be sure not to get the carb cleaner on the fount's paint. It's a great paint remover.
I don't remember the exact years tbh. I just make it a habit to never use it. Another method I use if the snorkel is clogged. Remove everything above the valve assembly, remove check valve, fill 3/4 with Coleman fuel, pump a few times , place it upside down in a metal pot or bucket and leave in the direct sun light. The clog is normally closer to the pump since it's the oil from the pump and leather fragments that clog it most of the time.

Another way is using a hydraulic slammer. I believe Mike sells them. I made myself one years ago. It's slightly smaller than the pump tube. Put fluid in the pump tube, insert tool and whack with a hammer. This works very well. The only thing I don't like about it is it pushes the gunk into the fount.
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A Seabee
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#10

Post by A Seabee »

I think I’ll try the alcohol or cf in the pump tube first and see what happens. I went out this morning before work and pumping it up seemed a little easier with just having used it last night.
But, any way that the clog is cleared is going to dump into the fount, right? And will a little alcohol in the fount with the fuel cause any problems? Or should I dump that tank and rinse again after the snorkel clears?
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#11

Post by Dmacp »

fill the fount with boiling water, cap it and invert it. The heat will melt the congealed pump lube in the "snorkel" and you can clear it with the pump.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#12

Post by JimL »

To remove sludge and rust, I use boiling citric. In this case, plain boiling water may work fine. However, one difference from Dan's suggestion that I would use is to fill with boiling water, tip the lantern so the boiling water gets into the snorkel, then leave it sitting right side up. Although both methods would likely work.

Just make certain there's no pressure in the fount with the boiling water. The check valve does a great job of holding back the air, not so with liquid. If there's pressure and you open the pump, any liquid in the snorkel and check valve may squirt out at you.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#13

Post by Gunhippie »

kellyblues wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:16 am
A Seabee wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:53 am
TwoCanoes wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:44 am There's a snorkle attached at the base of the pump tube that opens near the top of the fount. The air you pump into the fount passes through this snorkle, and yes, it can get plugged. I had a plugged snorkle on a 400B stove. Soaked it overnight in denatured alcohol, and I was able to force the plug out the next morning just by pushing hard on the pump.
Thank you. If it doesn't get better on it's own I may give that a try. you just fill the fount with the alcohol?
Do not fill it with alcohol. If it has the factory sealant on the floor of the fount alcohol will cause it to peel up. I usually put some cfuel in the pump tube and push it in the snorkel and let it sit. That and time usually takes car of it. I just did this on a 249. Literally started getting better the next day.
It's 1/'59. No fount liner.

I use carb cleaner for this. It's much better at dissolving the varnish, as that's what it was formulated for. Just don't get any on the paint. Carb cleaner will also burn just fine, so a partial pump tube full isn't a problem--no need to drain fuel.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#14

Post by A Seabee »

Gunhippie said-
I use carb cleaner for this. It's much better at dissolving the varnish, as that's what it was formulated for. Just don't get any on the paint. Carb cleaner will also burn just fine, so a partial pump tube full isn't a problem--no need to drain fuel.


What happens to the substance that is blocking the snorkel? I thought I had this one figured out, but it seems plugged worse than ever now. When I unscrew and press the pump, it's nearly impossible to push. I can push the pump, but it feels almost like the stem is closed, but it's not. 20 HARD pumps and barely a whisper from the fount when I open the fuel cap. If I just pump it once, slowly, I can hear the air bypassing somewhere, probably at the pump itself. There is no leak on the fount, I'm positive of that

I have not tried putting anything in the pump tube, but I'm gonna try this morning. just want to make sure I'm doing it right.

take the pump out
pour in the plug dissolving liquid of my choosing-denatured alcohol or carb cleaner
put pump back in (screws too?)
pump? liquid in the pump tube want's to come back out
let it sit
do this until plug clears?
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#15

Post by A Seabee »

Also, I have isopropal alcohol, 99%, will that not burn with the fuel? or must I use denatured?
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#16

Post by A Seabee »

and, if I fill it with boiling water, should I take out the check valve? leave the fuel pickup and valve in place?
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#17

Post by JimL »

You shouldn't need to remove anything, but if you'll have gunk floating around in the fount, you might be better off removing the F/A tube. That is, if you've already cleaned it. Just remember that boiling water will heat whatever air is in there and with the pump out, you may get a spray out of the pump when the gunk gives. Coleman check valves are great for stopping air, but not liquids.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#18

Post by A Seabee »

Well, I tried carb cleaner, alcohol, boiling vinegar and lime juice, boiling water 3x, and 120psi air from a rubber tipped air nozzle that fit all the way down to the check valve threads. plugged solid still. I tried to insert a piece of safety wire, but it's too soft to make the turn where the snorkel starts. I'll likely just get another fount and make this a long term experiment/project
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#19

Post by Tgarner01 »

I fought a snorkel on a transition E and finally ended up going through the valve bung and bending the snorkel over in line with the bung hole :cf_heeheehee: and used a long small drill bit to clean it out... Was full of rust and RUG... This of course would be a last resort as you are gambling not to damage something...
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#20

Post by A Seabee »

I GOT IT!!!

I did another 2 plain water boils with CV removed and pulsing air pressure, upside down and sideways air pressure, then finally one last boiling vinegar and lime juice fill, followed by the same pulsing/sideways/upside down routine. I felt it go, then the hot spray of vinegar lime came back at me through the pump tube, but I was quick and turned the hot spout towards my bucket. a bunch of black liquid came out after the plugged snorkel cleared. I blew it dry, hosed the inside with Kroil, capped it, stuffed a rag in the pump tube and am calling it a night. very happy to have saved this one. Thank you all for the suggestions and motivation!
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#21

Post by Bob1774 »

Persistence pays off! Nice save, and fettle.

Years ago, one of the moderators here, Dean, did a nice pictorial on how to clear the snorkel when all liquid solutions fail. He crafted a wire to reach in through the top hole and pull the snorkel end so that it could be reamed clear. Another member mentioned this also in a reply above. Not sure if the tutorial is still in the archives, but it was a fascinating process, and surely assisted many members in learning how the lantern's pressure system works.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#22

Post by JimL »

Great job Seabee!
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#23

Post by Gunhippie »

Glad to hear you got it cleared!

Next time, there's this: https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product ... at=&page=1

It's just a metal rod that fits tightly into the pump tube. Fill the pump tube with something incompressible--water, oil, etc--put the rod in and give it a good whack. You could pretty easily make one from a wooden dowel.
It's priceless until someone puts a price on it.
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#24

Post by A Seabee »

Gunhippie wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 3:42 pm Glad to hear you got it cleared!

Next time, there's this: https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product ... at=&page=1

It's just a metal rod that fits tightly into the pump tube. Fill the pump tube with something incompressible--water, oil, etc--put the rod in and give it a good whack. You could pretty easily make one from a wooden dowel.
I tried deprimering some berdan 7.62mm cases that way, with a dowel and water. It was a dismal failure!
But it might work better on an more organic plug like these devices develop. Thanks!
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#25

Post by A Seabee »

Back in action, running on Kerosene this time!
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection on Kerosene!!!

#26

Post by outlawmws »

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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#27

Post by WYSIWYG »

A Seabee wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 pm I tried deprimering some berdan 7.62mm cases that way, with a dowel and water. It was a dismal failure!
But it might work better on an more organic plug like these devices develop. Thanks!
I'll bet turned out better than what I tried when I was 9.....

I got ahold of some .38 rounds from my then deputy sheriff stepfather (pilfered them I did)

Got the lead out poured out the powder then tried to remove the primer.......
I think if I hit it just on the edge of the primer with this nail it will pop out !!!
Only took one strike of the small hammer I had and pow
I was running for help blood pouring from my eye. Luckily small scar on my retina out of my field of view.
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A Seabee
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#28

Post by A Seabee »

WYSIWYG wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:14 am
A Seabee wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 5:56 pm I tried deprimering some berdan 7.62mm cases that way, with a dowel and water. It was a dismal failure!
But it might work better on an more organic plug like these devices develop. Thanks!
I'll bet turned out better than what I tried when I was 9.....

I got ahold of some .38 rounds from my then deputy sheriff stepfather (pilfered them I did)

Got the lead out poured out the powder then tried to remove the primer.......
I think if I hit it just on the edge of the primer with this nail it will pop out !!!
Only took one strike of the small hammer I had and pow
I was running for help blood pouring from my eye. Luckily small scar on my retina out of my field of view.
Yeah, but you were just a child. we all tried crazy stuff like that. thank God you weren't blinded. I knew a guy, a Navy Gunner's Mate, GM2,
who tried to knock live a .50 cal primer out with a punch from the inside!!! Just about blew his thumb off
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#29

Post by Rustytank »

A Seabee wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:24 am Back in action, running on Kerosene this time!

IMG_4899.jpg
Kerosene rocks!
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Re: Epay 200A resurrection

#30

Post by A Seabee »

Rustytank wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:30 am
A Seabee wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:24 am Back in action, running on Kerosene this time!

IMG_4899.jpg
Kerosene rocks!
You're not kidding! Nice and bright, just the slightest little candle like flicker. maybe it will go away, but it doesn't bother me at all
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