Attn. Jeep Experts.

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Greazy
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Attn. Jeep Experts.

#1

Post by Greazy »

I own a 2006 Jeep Wrangler LJ (Unlimited) i purchased new with currently 244,560 well maintained miles on the odometer. Regarding the timing chain and oil pump drive assy (OPDA), the gang at the Wrangler TJ forum appear to recommend replacing these components as preventative maintenance.I understand some 05/06 models had failing OPDA's due to a design error. The engine in my Jeep runs well and quiet and a mechanics stethoscope at the timing cover and the OPDA detects no unusual noises. So- worth the money and effort to replace high mileage components that appear to be operating correctly? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.-Tom
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#2

Post by Tgarner01 »

I've got two 4.0s myself (99/00). One past 250K the other nearing 230k both all original. I won't touch them until they tell me too... Your mileage may vary.... Literally 😁 let's see that LJ!!!
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#3

Post by offrink »

I’m no keep expert but if you plan on keeping it all the maintenance stuff is worth it.
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#4

Post by Oldbiker »

Got 2 Jeeps. One an 83 CJ 7 with 6 cylinder, tilt wheel, air & etc. The other 79 CJ 5 plane Jane with 304. Don't know mileage of either but had the 5 for 30+ years & the 7 for over 20. Never had timing chain issues with either.

I have been bit by the timing belts on cars & trucks. First one poped @ low miles 60 something K. Warped some valves. Got lucky on second one @ 150K it broke but no valve damage. Chains will usually jump one notch & run terrible before destroying anything. If it's chain I'd keep running it. If it's belt, I'd change that sucker.
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#5

Post by zoomkat »

" the gang at the Wrangler TJ forum appear to recommend replacing these components as preventative maintenance."

You know how it goes on forums, some people will try to get you to "fix" stuff that is not broken. ;)
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#6

Post by ronm60 »

I own a automotive machine shop,We have done a lot of these engines.i would not worry about that timing chain.All the ones I’ve seen still have the original timing set.200 hundred to 300 thousand miles on them. Don’t run the living crap out of it anymore. I love my chevys,but I have to admit those 4.0s are real troopers. Ron
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#7

Post by grob »

Long time ago my 74 CJ5 with the AMC 304 blew a timing chain at well below 100K while recouping from a broken leg at like 2AM! Bent push rods and had to replace one valve. Different beast all together but at over a 1/4 million is a lot of miles.
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#8

Post by Jeepstircrazy »

The words “Four point 0 “ and “Bullet Proof “ always seem to be in one sentence for good reasons.
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#9

Post by Greazy »

Jeepstircrazy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:00 pm The words “Four point 0 “ and “Bullet Proof “ always seem to be in one sentence for good reasons.
I've wondered why Chrysler discontinued the iron inline six after decades of proven reliability?
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#10

Post by UncleFred »

Greazy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:33 pm
Jeepstircrazy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:00 pm The words “Four point 0 “ and “Bullet Proof “ always seem to be in one sentence for good reasons.
I've wondered why Chrysler discontinued the iron inline six after decades of proven reliability?
My theory is that the engine is too long to fit under the hood of many vehicles. A four or a V-6 is a much shorter engine.
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#11

Post by rob_pontius »

He reason for the 4.0L being discontinued is that they could no longer meet the E.P.A. requirements. My last cherokee with a 4.0L had 370k on it when I sold it. It didn't leak, smoke, rattle or anything. I beat the holy hell out of it too. It was off road going full bore more often than it was on the road, and it was my daily driver. It had the original timing set in it as well. Here's one more guy that truly believes that the Jeep 4.0L is a bulletproof engine.
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#12

Post by MotorcycleDan »

Greazy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:33 pm
Jeepstircrazy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:00 pm The words “Four point 0 “ and “Bullet Proof “ always seem to be in one sentence for good reasons.
I've wondered why Chrysler discontinued the iron inline six after decades of proven reliability?
It also may have not been able to pass emission regulations and fuel economy standards. It would have been to expensive to upgrade it for the mileage it was getting and what was coming out of the tail pipe. This has killed a bunch of great motors over the years.
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Greazy
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#13

Post by Greazy »

Well , i can certainly verify through 15yrs of ownership of this 4.0 since new that fuel efficient it is not! So yes, it became yet another victim of the EPA.
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#14

Post by zoomkat »

"Well , i can certainly verify through 15yrs of ownership of this 4.0 since new that fuel efficient it is not! So yes, it became yet another victim of the EPA."

So the EPA started making it guzzle gas? ;)
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#15

Post by Greazy »

zoomkat wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:43 pm "Well , i can certainly verify through 15yrs of ownership of this 4.0 since new that fuel efficient it is not! So yes, it became yet another victim of the EPA."

So the EPA started making it guzzle gas? ;)
Of course not but gov't regulation could have made it impractical for Chrysler to continue production. Or Chrysler may have had other reasons? A fan of the EPA, are you?
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#16

Post by Tgarner01 »

One can follow the 4.0s roots back to 1952 in AMC cars of the time. Tried and true design for sure. More main bearings than cylinders powering it 😁 if only it got some gas mileage. Best I ever got in the little XJ was 20 mpg on a trip...
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#17

Post by Greazy »

My grandfather owned a 60's era Rambler for decades which was powered by the inline six. He was an independent carpenter and that car was his work vehicle.
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#18

Post by arizonacamper »

Anytime an engine is replaced for another engine in a production vehicle or the vehicle line is upgraded it is due to emissions requirements by epa.
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#19

Post by zoomkat »

" A fan of the EPA, are you?"

Yes, but I also found your statement "interesting". ;)
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#20

Post by LongueCarabine »

rob_pontius wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:00 pm He reason for the 4.0L being discontinued is that they could no longer meet the E.P.A. requirements. My last cherokee with a 4.0L had 370k on it when I sold it. It didn't leak, smoke, rattle or anything. I beat the holy hell out of it too. It was off road going full bore more often than it was on the road, and it was my daily driver. It had the original timing set in it as well. Here's one more guy that truly believes that the Jeep 4.0L is a bulletproof engine.
Mine had 342K when it overheated due to me not paying attention.

I’ve heard the same as you, EPA requirements killed the 4.0.

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#21

Post by Stovie »

zoomkat wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:43 pmSo the EPA started making it guzzle gas? ;)
Initially, that was almost exactly what happened in the US, if not really a directive, unfortunately that was the result. They enacted ever increasingly strict pollution requirements, federal mandates, with respect to HC, CO, and NOX. The latter in particular is what causes smog. That was a good thing for places like LA.

Detroit de-tuned their engines in efforts to decrease nitrogen oxide emission requirements. That was also incidentally when catalytic converters came on the scene. The now wasted excess HC (unburned fuel) spewing out the tailpipe that was formerly burned in the engine, was then burned in the exhaust pipe using additional air injection and platinum catalysts. Most any OHV V8 from the 1950s onward can achieve 20 to 25 hwy mpg in a car, but it won't pass a smog test when tuned up for best power and efficiency.

There's a couple things you can look at with a timing chain - if it's excessively worn aka "stretched" it will tend to cause a loss of some torque or performance, as it no longer keeps the valve timing events where they should be.
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#22

Post by pagrey »

Asking a Jeep question here is kinda like asking what mantle to run on a 242 over on the TJ forum. Few here know anything about the production changes on the 4.0 over the years it was in the Wrangler. The bearing in the OPDA can seize and destroy the cam gear which requires tearing down the engine. Engines older than 2005 like my 2004 do not suffer from this issue. The passages that oil the bearing on the OPDA assembly were changed in 2005 and that is why they suffer from oil starvation and failure. You'll probably be fine at that mileage but the reason people on the forums mention it is because many 05-06 owners have had to pull the head and replace the cam as a result of this if the rest of the engine survives the cam gear failure. As far as listening for noise at the cam gear or OPDA assembly, if the bearing does the "laughing monkey" the cam is often already destroyed, if the cam gear rattles at the OPDA the cam gear is already destroyed. I understand why you would hesitate to replace it, correct installation requires the factory scan tool to initiate the re-learn process to avoid sync problems. I guess like everything in life there are no easy answers.
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#23

Post by pagrey »

As far as the timing chain goes here's mine six years ago at 120,000 miles.



I enjoy hearing they never wear out.
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#24

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

[quote=Stovie post_Most any OHV V8 from the 1950s onward can achieve 20 to 25 hwy mpg in a car, but it won't pass a smog test when tuned up for best power and efficiency.
[/quote]

How come they never achieved these mileage

[quote=rob_pontius post_id=346444 time=16234488
It didn't leak, smoke, rattle or anything.
[/quote]figures?

Wow, not sure how it didn’t leak any oil? I thought they all did!

Thank you!
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#25

Post by rob_pontius »

That's right Kevin, no oil leaks. When I got it, the exhaust header had the usual crack in it. I replaced it with a new one. The A/C had a leak in the system somewhere. I don't use the A/C, so I converted the A/C compressor into an onboard air compressor. That really came in handy when I aired the tires down for trail riding. It would also run air tools. I mounted an air tank in the back with a pressure switch to keep things from exploding. I kept an impact and a few other air tools in the big ammo box on the roof. I really wish that I still had that XJ Cherokee. It had the typical cherokee rot underneath though. I had to patch the floor pans in a few places. I'm currently working on a '99 XJ Cherokee for my son. This one has no rust at all. It's a great platform to build from.
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#26

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

rob_pontius wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:56 am That's right Kevin, no oil leaks. When I got it, the exhaust header had the usual crack in it. I replaced it with a new one. The A/C had a leak in the system somewhere. I don't use the A/C, so I converted the A/C compressor into an onboard air compressor. That really came in handy when I aired the tires down for trail riding. It would also run air tools. I mounted an air tank in the back with a pressure switch to keep things from exploding. I kept an impact and a few other air tools in the big ammo box on the roof. I really wish that I still had that XJ Cherokee. It had the typical cherokee rot underneath though. I had to patch the floor pans in a few places. I'm currently working on a '99 XJ Cherokee for my son. This one has no rust at all. It's a great platform to build from.
I chased oil leaks and worn track bars on a ZJ 4.0 that was originally delivered to Guam. I didn’t think there was a high mileage 4.0 that didn’t leaves its mark every where it sat.

Thank you!
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#27

Post by rob_pontius »

I feel your pain with track bar bushings along with the rest of the front suspension. Jeep death wobble will make you shake one down your pant leg when it happens at around 80mph. That's a violent ride.
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#28

Post by azmike »

Rob, you have a Jeep that goes 80? Wow, never done that with my84 CJ7!!
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#29

Post by LongueCarabine »

I see we have several CJ owners here. Anyone ever swap a 4.0 into a CJ? If so, how difficult was it?

I'm looking to get rid of my 2.5L in my 85 CJ, and I have access to either a 93 4.0 out of a Grand Cherokee or a 98 4.0 out of a Cherokee.

If any of you know about the best engine/transmission combos I'd like to hear them.

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Jeep Experts.

#30

Post by Stovie »

Whitegas Extraordinaire wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:58 am How come they never achieved these mileage

They did.

But only if they were tuned up and maintained. Even a Model T gets 20+ mpg.

The main reason fuel injection, and electronic ignition and other tech improvements were implemented so quickly in the "smog era" were requirement by the Feds that the engine had to meet, and hold, emission standards for at least 20,000 miles or somesuch without any adjustment or need for a tune-up. Points ignition and carburetors can't be made to run that long without need for maintenance.

All it takes is a single car that has a defective ignition or carburetion and it will spew pollutants equal to 50 cars running correctly. All the NOX killing engine de-tuning efforts made for hot running low powered engines that got around 11 mpg hwy typically. This was at a time of high monetary inflation too, oil prices had doubled and then quadrupled, so it really stung most Americans.
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#31

Post by rob_pontius »

All of my cherokees would do that with plenty of pedal left. Now, I wouldn't have tried that with my old '59 CJ6. That thing was a lumber wagon. It would beat you to death at 55mph. Brian, I've heard it said many times that if you wanted to ditch the four banger for a 6, its easier and a lot cheaper to ditch the whole jeep and find one that was built with a 4.0L from the factory. I haven't tried it myself though, so that's just secondhand knowledge.
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#32

Post by rob_pontius »

All of my cherokees would do that with plenty of pedal left. Now, I wouldn't have tried that with my old '59 CJ6. That thing was a lumber wagon. It would beat you to death at 55mph. Brian, I've heard it said many times that if you wanted to ditch the four banger for a 6, its easier and a lot cheaper to ditch the whole jeep and find one that was built with a 4.0L from the factory. I haven't tried it myself though, so that's just secondhand knowledge.
Rob
Greazy
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#33

Post by Greazy »

pagrey wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:31 am Asking a Jeep question here is kinda like asking what mantle to run on a 242 over on the TJ forum. Few here know anything about the production changes on the 4.0 over the years it was in the Wrangler. The bearing in the OPDA can seize and destroy the cam gear which requires tearing down the engine. Engines older than 2005 like my 2004 do not suffer from this issue. The passages that oil the bearing on the OPDA assembly were changed in 2005 and that is why they suffer from oil starvation and failure. You'll probably be fine at that mileage but the reason people on the forums mention it is because many 05-06 owners have had to pull the head and replace the cam as a result of this if the rest of the engine survives the cam gear failure. As far as listening for noise at the cam gear or OPDA assembly, if the bearing does the "laughing monkey" the cam is often already destroyed, if the cam gear rattles at the OPDA the cam gear is already destroyed. I understand why you would hesitate to replace it, correct installation requires the factory scan tool to initiate the re-learn process to avoid sync problems. I guess like everything in life there are no easy answers.
There must be at least one Coleman collector on the TJ forum that would know what mantle to run on a 242.
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#34

Post by pagrey »

That's a fact but you're also likely to get allot advice from people running 220s that don't understand that all lanterns aren't the same, a bit like what happened here
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#35

Post by pagrey »

LongueCarabine wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:02 pm I see we have several CJ owners here. Anyone ever swap a 4.0 into a CJ? If so, how difficult was it?

I'm looking to get rid of my 2.5L in my 85 CJ, and I have access to either a 93 4.0 out of a Grand Cherokee or a 98 4.0 out of a Cherokee.
The 4.0 is a poor choice for any Jeep it wasn't originally installed in. You'll be swapping over computers and wiring is less than trivial. Like Rob said, most people just buy new rigs with the engine they want and save a bucket of cash. On a CJ if you really want a six I'd look at the older ones that were factory options that don't use fuel injection. In general small blocks are lighter, more powerful, less expensive and better supported. There is a reason those swaps are so common. Take a look at Novak Conversions if you want some details, there is good information there on all types of swaps.

https://www.novak-adapt.com
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#36

Post by Greazy »

pagrey wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:48 pm That's a fact but you're also likely to get allot advice from people running 220s that don't understand that all lanterns aren't the same, a bit like what happened here
What happened here?
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#37

Post by pagrey »

You can lead a horse to water...
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Re: Attn. Jeep Experts.

#38

Post by LongueCarabine »

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Brian

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