Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

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Hot_Diggity
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Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#1

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Offered by Montgomery Ward from winter 1935 until the outbreak of WWII stopped importation of the Ehrich & Graetz burners from Germany. The base was made in USA and is chrome plated brass with a sheet steel base plate. You'd never know from the pictures that I've got a lot of polishing yet to do. This has been the hardest to locate mantle lamp that I've gone after. The burner is nearly identical to the Famos 120CP lamp that's common in the UK, but it was this base I had to really hunt for.

Wards.jpg
lampWard3536.jpg



The shade should be reasonable easy to work up from a plain Aladdin with an added chimney frame. (these mount on the chimney. Scary at first, but it works)

Wards with Colemen mantle.jpg

The fun part looks like it will be finding large enough mantles. Anybody have any ideas here? A Kero-Lite mantle is about 1/2" short.

Farmor burner from Sears (at base of lamp) was the sales competition. The Farmor is a stout mantle lamp and Sears bought 32,000 of them in 1935. Both of these lamps plus many Aladdin models were the competition for the Kero-Lite when it was introduced in 1938.

Wards home.jpg

It's been the one that eluded me the longest of all my mantle lamps. Burners are easy to find, but the bases all seem to be missing.
This one will have a place of honor in my home. Looking forward to seeing this one making light again.
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Last edited by Hot_Diggity on Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#2

Post by Tgarner01 »

That's a handsome looking lamp Chuck! I only have minimal understanding of the center draft lamps... But, could one adjust the mantle holder to where the Coleman would touch at the bottom and the lamp still run correctly? Thinking out loud 😁
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#3

Post by mksmth »

Very nice lamp!
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#4

Post by 1hpycmpr »

Beautiful lamp, Chuck! Glad you finally found one and look forward to seeing it running again.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#5

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Thanks guys.

That's what I was thinking too Toby. I do have two mantle holders of different designs. One is a simple ring with brazed on uprights. I was thinking about making something similar out of stainless steel and adjust the height to the Coleman mantle.

The E&G burner, like the Farmor is rated at almost three times the light output of the Kero-Lite. Big tall mantles we're part of the reason for that. I think this burner would behave like the Farmor I run with a Coleman mantle. At low flame, barely lit it's okay, but lights the upper parts of the mantle only. Any higher and flames are above the mantle. It just needs the tall mantle that matches its flame pattern.
Last edited by Hot_Diggity on Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#6

Post by Pancholoco1911 »

That’s a beauty right there.

Congrats 🎉🎊🍾
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#7

Post by Ridge Runner »

Very classy, Chuck. Got some nice curves on that one!
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#8

Post by Erwin »

Hi Chuck.
Thanks for posting this.
I have a great lamp like yours as well but haven't lit it due to lack of a proper mantle.
Those were sold in Germany as ESSO Petroleum Glühlicht (ESSO incandescent kerosene lamp), made be E&G.
Mine is marked on the gallery with "Pat appl for" and "Made in Germany".
I bought it in an antique store in the US but don't know if it is a Wards or E&G.
What kind of mantle did you hang on? (Aladdin or Coleman?)
Thanks for any additional info.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#9

Post by Kgam1020 »

Wow Chuck that lamp is beautiful! Hope you find a solution for your mantle.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#10

Post by Erwin »

Chuck, one more question: It that above ad from a Wards catalogue or flyer? :o
The ad in my posting is about new products from E&G.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#11

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Erwin, that ad is from the 1935-36 Montgomery Ward catalog.

Mantle is an aftermarket Kero-Lite replacement.

Your lamp is beautiful and has the domed flame spreader. Mine is the flat top, but has some nice additional curves below the top.
Not sure if these were early or late production. The E surrounded by a G is so hard to make out on the wick riser knob that I think a lot of these are sold as "unknown German lamp." I know two of my burners were sold with that description. It's nice to see the beautiful wide base in the Erich & Graetz catalog. :D

I think my center wick tube, which is supposed to be removable, is pushed down too far. I will reserve judgement on this until I can verify the flame pattern. It may be ideal.

E&G logo.jpg
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#12

Post by Erwin »

Hey Chuck.
Thanks for your quick reply.
I've added another picture of my burner with the E in G logo.
Unfortunately I don't have a mantle hanger and KeroLite mantles are not available in this part of the world. :cry:
So I need to think about what to do.
I could perhaps buy a mantle at the next ICCC convention but I doubt I'll have a chance to get a proper hanger. I assume I'll have to tinker some to make it work.
Thanks again, Erwin.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#13

Post by Hot_Diggity »

I have a couple things I plan to try that may work for you as well Erwin. I found this mantle holder ring on another E&G burner (missing upper frame) and was inspired to make something similar to fit a Coleman or Aladdin mantle.
Wards mantle ring.jpg
The original mantle was as large as I thought, and I'm still testing ideas on how to make a mantle that'll work, even if it isn't perfectly shaped.
Wards mantle.jpg
IMG_20211109_194549.jpg
My flat top flame spreader sits almost even with the top of the burner. This must be the correct height since the inner and outer wick tubes are at the same height when assembled. I'll be interested to see if the flat and domed flame spreaders change the flame shape.

I'll keep you updated on my progress.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#14

Post by Coast_to_Coast »

Wow. Cool shape and I like the look of that chrome. Whiter than nickel. Kind of like platinum.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#15

Post by Erwin »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:00 pm I have a couple things I plan to try that may work for you as well Erwin. I found this mantle holder ring on another E&G burner (missing upper frame) and was inspired to make something similar to fit a Coleman or Aladdin mantle.
Chuck, that would be very interesting indeed. :P
I bought mine a couple of years ago but never fiddled around with it so far.
Now you made me curious and I'd taken it apart and tried some ideas.

I have some old mantle frames from various mantles (Aladdin Kone Cap, Lox-On, Aladdin Upright etc.) but the bases are all far to small to fit over the burner. A mantle holder from a KeroLight might be better but I have none to try. :(
Would one of you other readers take the effort and measure the inside of such a mantle holder? :shock:

The good thing is that my original wick is still very long and it looks like it was hardly used, if at all. It's burned on one side but it seems the previous owner wasn't very successful with it. Unfortunately the flame spreader is dented and stuck in the wick tube but with some penetrating oil I'll get it out eventually.

One more good thing is that an Aladdin shade holder fits perfectly on the gallery. Hence my only concern now is to get a mantle and holder and I'll be good to go.
I'm very much looking forward to your success on those, Chuck.
Enclosesd some more pictures of my lamp.
Thanks, Erwin.
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E&G-Esso_03.jpg
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#16

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Thank you Erwin for the wonderful tip on the Aladdin shade holder. I have to look at my Aladdin shade holders, but I think they're all 10" fitter. I'd eagerly modify one to fit a 14" Aladdin shade. :D

Your flame spreader looks like it'll iron out with a little spoon and mandrel treatment. I've save a couple Kero-Lite flame spreaders that were far more squashed than yours.

These pictures really show the large size difference between the E&G and other mantle frames.

E&G 160 and Aladdin.jpg


The Kero-Lite mantle frame almost fits INSIDE the E&G frame, and late model Aladdin frame fits in the top. (last image) Kero-Lite and Aladdin mantles are virtually the same size, and I now fit the less expensive Kero-Lite frameless mantles onto old Aladdin frames.


Looking at the heat pattern on your gallery yours may have had the ring style mantle holder. It fits very securely on the slight taper of the gallery. Mine is 49mm inside diameter, 9.4mm high and 1.3mm thick. The height above the top edge of the gallery to the hook surface is a whopping 77mm.

E&G Ring mantle frame.jpg
E&G vs Aladdin.jpg
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#17

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

I was looking at a 1933 Veritas catalog earlier. They show two mantles for Famos lamps. One was listed as 180cp the other at 90cp. I’ll try to post a picture after work or if you pm me your email address I’ll send you a pdf.
Over on the CPL there’s a thread from yesterday where a gentlemen posted a picture of the Famos shade offering. It included the standard Famos shade alongside a Coleman 318.

Thank you!
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#18

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Oooooh! I look forward to seeing pictures of the Famous shade Kevin.

Farmor (Sears) lamps are what exposed me to chimney mounted shades. Lots of potential on mantle lamps.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#19

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:06 pm Oooooh! I look forward to seeing pictures of the Famous shade Kevin.

Farmor (Sears) lamps are what exposed me to chimney mounted shades. Lots of potential on mantle lamps.
Chuck
You may not like it? I forget the number but the white one is a kinda common Famos shade.
It arrived on an Aladdin.
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Thank you!
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#20

Post by egroscup »

Wow, I am not ultra wickie crazy but those are beautiful. Glad you found that elusive piece for your great collection. E.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#21

Post by Hot_Diggity »

That's a beautiful shade Kevin, and they look great on the Famos lamps and right at home on an Aladdin too.

You're correct in thinking that I'd be more interested in a chimney mount parchment shade like Montgomery Ward originally offered. I'm working on a couple top shade rings that will make my Aladdin shaded convertible from Kero-lite bottom spider to top finial mount and chimney mount for Farmor and Wards.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#22

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Thanks Erik. They will become a rabbit hole of you let them. The Kero-Lite was the start of this madness, but now I'm interested in all the late 1930s mantle lamps.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#23

Post by JimL »

>>Unfortunately the flame spreader is dented and stuck in the wick tube but with some penetrating oil I'll get it out eventually.

Erwin,

Perhaps you don't 'need' to remove the flame spreader. However, if you really want to, one thought that came to me is to use something like a wood chopstick, and from underneath, put it against the edge of the flame spreader base and tap lightly as you go around that bottom edge.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#24

Post by Erwin »

Kevin, I can't get to the flame spreader from below.
I have a solid base plate in the very bottom where the rim of the foot is crimped around. :x
No problem, penetrating oil will do the work.
It sat around for so long that I can wait a little longer. :lol:
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#25

Post by Erwin »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:16 pm ....and late model Aladdin frame fits in the top. (last image)
Kero-Lite and Aladdin mantles are virtually the same size, and I now fit the less expensive Kero-Lite frameless mantles onto old Aladdin frames.
Chuck, do you mean an Aladdin Lox-On frame? :o
I've bent the lower tabs of one to the inside but for me it still looks too big. Perhaps I didn't try hard enough.... :shock:
The other idea I thought about is some stainless spring wire. I've got it tight on the gallery now and it holds a U-wire of a Lox-On mantle but I'm not sure if this will work. It's a weird construction and I'll likely break the mantle when fiddling around to put that construction on the gallery. :cry:
Based on your hint I'll check for KeroLite frameless mantles at the next ICCC convention. :P

Oh, and one more thing: If you had put a Lox-On frame on the gallery, would that have an appropriate height to properly light the mantle?
Thanks, Erwin.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#26

Post by Hot_Diggity »

E&G-Esso_07 (1).jpg
That'll work Erwin. Brilliant solution. Now you just need an enormous mantle.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#27

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Erwin wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:02 pm
Chuck, do you mean an Aladdin Lox-On frame? :o

Oh, and one more thing: If you had put a Lox-On frame on the gallery, would that have an appropriate height to properly light the mantle?
Thanks, Erwin.
.
Yes, it was the cheap looking sheet metal Lox-On mantle frame that I refer to as a late-model. I'm not a great fan of later Aladdin designs. ;)

It could work Erwin. You should get some idea of how well by observing the flame pattern without a mantle installed. I'll try the Kero-Lite mantle with the gap at the bottom if your Aladdin mantle works out. :D Once the mantle is burning bright nobody will be able to look too closely anyway. 8-)

This is likely an apples and oranges comparison between different lamp designs. The trouble I found with a mantle that was too small was that the optimal flame pattern overwhelmed the smaller mantle and a lamp capable of 115CP with the correct (13mm taller and broader) mantle, only made the top half of a Kero-Lite mantle incandesce. This was on the Farmor (Sears) lamp. With the wick just beginning to make stable flame it would illuminate the top half of the mantle. Anything above that resulted in flame that reached above the Kero-Lite mantle and making no brighter light. The shape of the flame matched the shape of the mantle it was designed for perfectly.

I saw somewhere that the center wick tube could be removed from the lamp. Mine will not come out without more force than I was willing to apply. My flame spreader is closely fitted. Obviously German precision fit.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#28

Post by Hot_Diggity »

This is how Sears did their chimney mount on the Farmor lamps.

Farmor_shadeHolder.jpg

I haven't found a Wards shade to get a look at how it was mounted, but I suspect something similar. Famos made some beautiful parchment shades! :o

Famos Shades.jpg

Closest I have is a hexagon chimney mount shade that will do until something more attractive comes along.

Chimney mount shade.jpg
E&G with hexagon shade.jpg
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#29

Post by Erwin »

Hi Kevin and Chuck.
Thank you very much for your information! :cf_thumbup:
I've checked my possibilities of shades and found out I can do both, parchment and glass. :P
Chuck, I like your parchment shade but would be afraid to place the shade holder on the chimney. I've seen that with some French lamps as well but would be frightened to crack it. :o
So now my only issues are to straighten the flame spreader and find a proper mantle and hanger. :)
I'll report back once I'm successful.
Thanks again for all your help and ideas.
Erwin.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#30

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

Erwin wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:26 pm Hi Kevin and Chuck.
Thank you very much for your information! :cf_thumbup:
I've checked my possibilities of shades and found out I can do both, parchment and glass. :P
Chuck, I like your parchment shade but would be afraid to place the shade holder on the chimney. I've seen that with some French lamps as well but would be frightened to crack it. :o
So now my only issues are to straighten the flame spreader and find a proper mantle and hanger. :)
I'll report back once I'm successful.
Thanks again for all your help and ideas.
Erwin.
.
E&G-Esso_09.jpgE&G-Esso_10.jpg
Erwin
It’s interesting that the Famos mantles appear to have an integral hanger like a Aladdin. I’m wondering if anyone has tried an Aladdin gas light mantle? Though it’s probably to tall.

Thank you!
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#31

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Those look absolutely stunning Erwin! I'm ordering a chrome 14" Aladdin spider since I have only a brass 10." The chimney shade is a little unnerving at first, but reading about early Farmor lamps with 16" shades (later reduced to 15") and actually using this one several times has set my mind at ease with the simplicity of the concept.

Looking at Farmor chimney shade stuff in my files I found the reason the Farmor mantle doesn't incandesce at the bottom. It isn't supposed to. This sheds a little more light (pun intended) on the patents for the Coleman Kero-Lite flame flange and the lamps ability to light up the entire mantle.
Farmor_Lamp_label.jpg
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#32

Post by Erwin »

Whitegas Extraordinaire wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:27 pm I’m wondering if anyone has tried an Aladdin gas light mantle? Though it’s probably to tall.
Kevin, I bought a good batch of Aladdin Upright mantles years ago.
They are very slim and tall. Tall might not even be a problem since Chuck mentioned that the lower part of the mantle isn't supposed to light anyway.
The only point again is how to fix the mantle / holder onto the gallery..... :o
Unfortunately I don't have a brilliant idea as of yet. :(
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#33

Post by Jayhawksr »

My brother collects Aladdins and he told me -- "Never turn you back on it." I guess they can go from working just fine to flaring up without notice and if your in the other room or wandering around the house things can to south pretty quickly.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#34

Post by JimL »

Richard,

I've heard the same thing several times. Some burners are certainly better than others. My 'B' burner seems pretty reliable in that regard, but I haven't heard that about the '23' burner. I've heard nothing about the new 'Max Brite' burners.

What's worse with Aladdin's is the fragile mantles. I don't know if the latest production are any better, but they ought to be perfect with the prices going through the roof. They went from $15 to $18 last year, and are now $25! Please ask your brother is these new mantles are any better.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#35

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Not all mantle lamps are created equal. My Kero-Lites will run all night making stable light. Most of my older Aladdin models are okay. Aladdin 23, not so much. I have two that I can't trust. They're mostly retired.

In my brief run of the E&G this afternoon, I found it to be very precisely adjustable. I think it'll be a good runner with the right mantle.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#36

Post by Hot_Diggity »

German precision now fully appreciated. The learning curve wasn't all that steep, but I learned a lesson that will apply to all my mantle lamps. Adjusting the flame spreader height will adjust which portion of the mantle is illuminated. Too low and the flame is tall and narrow, lighting only the top of the mantle. Too high and only the bottom will illuminate. In three tries I had it where it would make the entire Kero-Lite mantle (which is still 13mm too short at the bottom) incandesce.

Here's how the flame and mantle looked with the flame spreader fully seated in the inner wick tube. That left one row of holes exposed above the gallery. It also made a sound like a small engine. The reflected view in the chimney is easier to see.
E&G flame spreader seated.jpg

After setting the flame spreader too high and verifying that only the bottom the mantle was bright I tapped the flame spreader down just a bit and got the entire mantle to light up.
E&G flame spreader adjusted.jpg

At this height, three rows of holes above the gallery, (Which is exactly the same as a Kero-Lite flame spreader when fully seated. ;) ) I could precisely regulate the flame until the smallest black spots appeared, and then back it off until they faded away. The speed with which the black spot burned off was surprisingly fast, likely due to the efficient air flow of the center draft design.
E&G with hexagon shade.jpg
E&G chimney mount shade.jpg

Knowing that I can adjust the illumination of the mantle with the flame spreader height opens up a lot of options for mantles, and has renewed my interest in fiddling with my Farmor lamps and Kero-lladin projects which also use the reproduction Kero-lite frameless mantles.

With all this tuning and adjusting going on the little Coleman Kero-Lite just sits back and silently makes light. :D
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#37

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:29 pm German precision now fully appreciated. The learning curve wasn't all that steep, but I learned a lesson that will apply to all my mantle lamps. Adjusting the flame spreader height will adjust which portion of the mantle is illuminated. Too low and the flame is tall and narrow, lighting only the top of the mantle. Too high and only the bottom will illuminate. In three tries I had it where it would make the entire Kero-Lite mantle (which is still 13mm too short at the bottom) incandesce.

Here's how the flame and mantle looked with the flame spreader fully seated in the inner wick tube. That left one row of holes exposed above the gallery. It also made a sound like a small engine. The reflected view in the chimney is easier to see.

E&G flame spreader seated.jpg


After setting the flame spreader too high and verifying that only the bottom the mantle was bright I tapped the flame spreader down just a bit and got the entire mantle to light up.

E&G flame spreader adjusted.jpg


At this height, three rows of holes above the gallery, (Which is exactly the same as a Kero-Lite flame spreader when fully seated. ;) ) I could precisely regulate the flame until the smallest black spots appeared, and then back it off until they faded away. The speed with which the black spot burned off was surprisingly fast, likely due to the efficient air flow of the center draft design.

E&G with hexagon shade.jpg

E&G chimney mount shade.jpg


Knowing that I can adjust the illumination of the mantle with the flame spreader height opens up a lot of options for mantles, and has renewed my interest in fiddling with my Farmor lamps and Kero-lladin projects which also use the reproduction Kero-lite frameless mantles.

With all this tuning and adjusting going on the little Coleman Kero-Lite just sits back and silently makes light. :D
Just splendid Chuck.

Thank you!
Kevin

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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#38

Post by Whitegas Extraordinaire »

JimL wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:23 pm Richard,

I've heard the same thing several times. Some burners are certainly better than others. My 'B' burner seems pretty reliable in that regard, but I haven't heard that about the '23' burner. I've heard nothing about the new 'Max Brite' burners.

What's worse with Aladdin's is the fragile mantles. I don't know if the latest production are any better, but they ought to be perfect with the prices going through the roof. They went from $15 to $18 last year, and are now $25! Please ask your brother is these new mantles are any better.
Jim
I’m not sure you’re aware but that mantle production is moving. From the Philippines to…… India. I don’t think there are any currently being made.

Thank you!
Kevin

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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#39

Post by JimL »

Kevin,

I never really knew definitively where the 'current' Aladdin mantles were made. If they're no longer made at all, then the extreme price increase make sense since there are no more, and also explains why quality is not getting better.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#40

Post by Erwin »

Hot_Diggity wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:29 pm Adjusting the flame spreader height will adjust which portion of the mantle is illuminated. Too low and the flame is tall and narrow, lighting only the top of the mantle. Too high and only the bottom will illuminate. In three tries I had it where it would make the entire Kero-Lite mantle (which is still 13mm too short at the bottom) incandesce.
Hi Chuck.
Congratulations on your excellent result and and your observation. :cf_sign_restoration:
That will help me a lot when tinkering with mine again.
Your lamp and shade look beautiful! :cf_bravo:

EDIT: One more thing. I've noted that your glass chimney is much shorter than mine. I don't know which size is correct and if mine really belongs to that lamp. I assume the length of the chimney has a signifcant influence on the draft. I'll check when I'm able to run my lamp. :roll:

I've made a little progress in the meantime.
Got my flame spreader out and reshaped some. :)
Ordered some silver solder rods. Will try to make a mantle holder from brass or copper sheet bent into a ring with soldered-on tabs (similar to a Lox-On mantle holder) and will then stick a Lox-On mantle to it.
Will re-post when I'm done. :P
Enjoy your wonderful lamp.
Erwin.
Last edited by Erwin on Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#41

Post by Erwin »

JimL wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:31 pm I never really knew definitively where the 'current' Aladdin mantles were made. If they're no longer made at all, then the extreme price increase make sense since there are no more, and also explains why quality is not getting better.
The "current" mantles (Aladdin's and Peerless') were made in a small factory in Manila. We visited Sam years ago and saw an Aladdin mantle being made step-by-step, almost completely manually.
Also saw the old Coleman knitting machine. Around that time it became more and more difficult to get the rare earths in good quality from China and due to this the whole business was sold to India after some time.
I've no idea what the quality of the current Peerless mantles is (I think there was a long discussion about this before) and if these guys now produce Aladdin mantles at all.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#42

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Thank you for the encouragement I needed to get this one going Erwin. Your plan for a mantle and frame sounds great. I look forward to seeing your making light.

You are correct on the chimney height. My lamps overall height is only 20". The original advertising gave an overall height of 22 1/'2", with the chimney contributing to the beautiful proportions of the lamp. I think your chimney is closer to the correct height, but since I'm at less than three meters from sea level I have few issues getting anything to run well.

Now I have a good reason to drive to Wilmington next weekend to shop for chimneys. :cf_yes:
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#43

Post by Erwin »

Hi fellas.
I just want report some success / failure for working on my Wards / Esso lamp.
After I received the silver solder rods I tried my hands on my very first silver solder job, making a mantle holder for the lamp.
It's not a piece of art but it worked somehow, although I only found out later that the tabs are very short and the mantle rods stick in the holder very short only. Perhaps I have to re-work that and make some taller tabs.
Anyway, here's the result so far.
E&G-Esso_11.jpg
I had de-dented the flame spreader earlier and after trimming the wick somewhat even I filled the fount with clean kero, let it sit for some time and finally made my first attempt to light the lamp. :)
The result was a very high reddish flame and not blue as I had expected from an Aladdin lamp.
Here it is:
E&G-Esso_13.jpg
Now I'm cluesless what might be wrong and what to do. :cry:
Is the draft too strong? The only thing I can think of right now is that the wick is still too high, although it is in the lowest position I can do with the wick raiser. If that is true then my only chance is to cut the wick shorter (which wouldn't be a catastrophy since it is still very long). :o
Any ideas from the experts?
Thanks for any input you can give.
Erwin.
E&G-Esso_14.jpg
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#44

Post by Tgarner01 »

Looks like you need to install the chimney Erwin?
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#45

Post by Erwin »

I was so shocked when I saw that flame that I didn't think about the chimney and put the lamp quickly out again.
Wouldn't the chimney increase the draft even higher? :o
It is 15" long which means it is an original Farmor shade.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#46

Post by Tgarner01 »

It will play a big part in how it burns... For better or worse 😁
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#47

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Looks about like the flame I had initially with the chimney in place.
IMG_20211112_121146.jpg
The magic was in adjusting the height of the flame spreader.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#48

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Adjusted up too far I lit only the bottom of the mantle. Once I found the sweet spot the entire mantle was bright.
IMG_20211113_082916.jpg
You're very close Erwin. Just a little bit of tuning now.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#49

Post by Erwin »

Hey guys.
Thanks for your comments.
I'll play around with it some more, also with the chimney, once I feel more confident of what I'm doing. :o
Chuck, can you do me a big favor and check what the height of the wick is with the gallery installed and wihout the mantle (only if you can lift the mantle without breaking it)? :shock:
Did you get it to burn nicely only by adjusting the flame spreader height?
Thanks all for your help and hints.
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Re: Mantle Lamp Monday - Montgomery Ward table lamp

#50

Post by Hot_Diggity »

Hi Erwin,

I've installed a new chimney that gives the lamp the correct overall height of 22.5". The flame spreader seemed happy at the same spot, with three rows of holes visible above the gallery. As an experiment I pushed it down to where only two rows of holes were visible. This clearly left some of the lower part of the mantle unable to incandesce.
2 holes.jpg
3 holes.jpg
Happy wick height.jpg
The height of the wick when the lamp is running happily is only 6-8mm above the outer wick tube. This means it's another 6-8mm down inside the gallery. There is an incredible amount of travel on the wick, from well within the wick tube to 21mm above the gallery. I doubt a careful lamp owner would ever need to replace a wick. This sounds odd, but when I first lit the lamp tonight I had to turn the wick down considerably to stop orange flame from appearing inside the chimney. Once it was turned down the flame was all blue and even the blue flame was no longer visible once the mantle was lit up.

I think our lamps like a nice gentle start and need just a little warm-up. After that it's all about the flame spreader height. Good luck Erwin. I'm sure you'll have it running bright as the sun soon.
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