#95 Mantle burn in.

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Dashwood
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#95 Mantle burn in.

#1

Post by Dashwood »

I for the life of me cannot set these mantles. They keep ripping in short order, even curing it under low pressure.
It seems the #95's are way too short for the new northstars vs the CF version.

Any tips on preburning these mantles? I tried everything.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#2

Post by Rustytank »

I ditched the tube mantles and went to these. They are a big bulb type similar to the petromax mantle.
https://www.leacockcolemancenter.com/Ma ... tem/625-MS
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#3

Post by Dashwood »

I would much prefer retaining the use of these tube mantles. I know there are other brand 95's out there and was wondering which is the best that people have ran into (Tried American Mantles, they just fall apart looking at it).
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#4

Post by 25_502s »

No help as I don’t have a lantern that uses them but I can imagine how frustrating that is because those things are expensive!!
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#5

Post by MotorcycleDan »

I have not had any problems with Coleman #95's. I start the flame from a small torch or BB Q lighter at the bottom and then work my way up to the top when burning them in. Let it sit for about 10 minutes to let everything cool and then light it up with the electronic lighter on the lantern. You can also try and do a pre heat of the generator before turning on the fuel. Less raw fuel to light and go "Poof".
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#6

Post by Tgarner01 »

Anytime you have a mantle that is tied top and bottom I find it's important to make sure and tie it strait, as in not twisted... Tilley's are another one that are built similar to these.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#7

Post by Rustytank »

Northstar with Lighthouse 625 mantle
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#8

Post by Dashwood »

MotorcycleDan wrote: Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:26 pm I have not had any problems with Coleman #95's. I start the flame from a small torch or BB Q lighter at the bottom and then work my way up to the top when burning them in. Let it sit for about 10 minutes to let everything cool and then light it up with the electronic lighter on the lantern. You can also try and do a pre heat of the generator before turning on the fuel. Less raw fuel to light and go "Poof".
I own both types of northstar. My CF version is less tempermental than the propane version I have. It seems the #95 tends to shrink way too fast. I've even let it sit a good hour after preburning, only to find them shrink in short order to the point they rip at first low pressure. Something tells me the new old stock #95's are better apparently. They have a twist on clip vs the insta-clips.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#9

Post by MYN927 »

Sometimes, mantles behave differently.
This time again, follow the instructions that came with the propane Northstar exactly and fully pre-burn the mantle uniformly with a soft flame that isn't too hot. A good match or butane lighter would do. With a soft, uniform burn, the mantle will still retain some flexibility just before you turn on the main gas valve. Do not pre-burn it for longer than necessary or overdo it with a hot propane torch.(otherwise, it'll shrink too much and become more fragile).
You do not actually need to wait for the burnt-in mantle to cool down before lighting.
With a pilot flame that doesn't extinguish easily near the mantle, turn the lantern's gas supply valve open to full quickly. The initial strong ignition 'whoomph' of the gas will help expand the mantle fully. A mantle that has been expanded in such a way will be a lot less likely to shrink too much during the subsequent sustained operation.
Unless the mantle is poorly made, it shouldn't tear apart upon lighting.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#10

Post by Rustytank »

MYN927 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:46 pm Sometimes, mantles behave differently.
This time again, follow the instructions that came with the propane Northstar exactly and fully pre-burn the mantle uniformly with a soft flame that isn't too hot. A good match or butane lighter would do. With a soft, uniform burn, the mantle will still retain some flexibility just before you turn on the main gas valve. Do not pre-burn it for longer than necessary or overdo it with a hot propane torch.(otherwise, it'll shrink too much and become more fragile).
You do not actually need to wait for the burnt-in mantle to cool down before lighting.
With a pilot flame that doesn't extinguish easily near the mantle, turn the lantern's gas supply valve open to full quickly. The initial strong ignition 'whoomph' of the gas will help expand the mantle fully. A mantle that has been expanded in such a way will be a lot less likely to shrink too much during the subsequent sustained operation.
Unless the mantle is poorly made, it shouldn't tear apart upon lighting.
That whoomph is usually where the #95 comes apart if it managed to remain intact during burn in. Maybe coleman put out a bad batch a couple of years ago but I went through 3 packs in short order, following the instructions and the mantles just wouldn't survive burn in in most cases so I improvised, adapted, and overcame with a big petromax style mantle.
If you do get one to survive burn in maybe starting at low pressure and getting it warmed up before increasing pressure will help the survival rate. Someone on here told me to do that on the currently produced 21 mantles and I've had success with that.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#11

Post by Dashwood »

No matter how gentle I do the burn, and how loose and saggy they get, they shrink up so much even under low pressure that they just tear off from the bottom mantle support.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#12

Post by Dashwood »

MYN927 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:46 pm Sometimes, mantles behave differently.
This time again, follow the instructions that came with the propane Northstar exactly and fully pre-burn the mantle uniformly with a soft flame that isn't too hot. A good match or butane lighter would do. With a soft, uniform burn, the mantle will still retain some flexibility just before you turn on the main gas valve. Do not pre-burn it for longer than necessary or overdo it with a hot propane torch.(otherwise, it'll shrink too much and become more fragile).
You do not actually need to wait for the burnt-in mantle to cool down before lighting.
With a pilot flame that doesn't extinguish easily near the mantle, turn the lantern's gas supply valve open to full quickly. The initial strong ignition 'whoomph' of the gas will help expand the mantle fully. A mantle that has been expanded in such a way will be a lot less likely to shrink too much during the subsequent sustained operation.
Unless the mantle is poorly made, it shouldn't tear apart upon lighting.
Tried ripping it full blast, the results are somewhat better as it no longer rips at the bottom, it's not until when the gas is shut off the mantle cools and contracts, forming a small hole. The hole kinda gets covered up when I relight and the mantle re-expands.

Unsure if this is still ideal.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#13

Post by Hot_Diggity »

When you say "new Northstar" are you talking about the Northern Nova?

I'm waiting for a special occasion to fire it up, but I tied some cheap MIC "dual head gas lantern mantles" on it. They look good. Can't say anything about performance yet, but they're cheap. I tied them both with the pink end up. Maybe I should've tied one with the green end up to see if it made any difference. "Green side up!" ;)

Image

I have #95 insta-clips on both CF and profane Northstar and have never had an issue with them.
They are really skinny and stretched looking.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#14

Post by MYN927 »

Rustytank wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:30 pm
MYN927 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:46 pm Sometimes, mantles behave differently.
This time again, follow the instructions that came with the propane Northstar exactly and fully pre-burn the mantle uniformly with a soft flame that isn't too hot. A good match or butane lighter would do. With a soft, uniform burn, the mantle will still retain some flexibility just before you turn on the main gas valve. Do not pre-burn it for longer than necessary or overdo it with a hot propane torch.(otherwise, it'll shrink too much and become more fragile).
You do not actually need to wait for the burnt-in mantle to cool down before lighting.
With a pilot flame that doesn't extinguish easily near the mantle, turn the lantern's gas supply valve open to full quickly. The initial strong ignition 'whoomph' of the gas will help expand the mantle fully. A mantle that has been expanded in such a way will be a lot less likely to shrink too much during the subsequent sustained operation.
Unless the mantle is poorly made, it shouldn't tear apart upon lighting.
That whoomph is usually where the #95 comes apart if it managed to remain intact during burn in. Maybe coleman put out a bad batch a couple of years ago but I went through 3 packs in short order, following the instructions and the mantles just wouldn't survive burn in in most cases so I improvised, adapted, and overcame with a big petromax style mantle.
If you do get one to survive burn in maybe starting at low pressure and getting it warmed up before increasing pressure will help the survival rate. Someone on here told me to do that on the currently produced 21 mantles and I've had success with that.
Yes, the Petromax-type bulbous mantles usually work well for me too, regardless of the lanterns.
I've had torn mantles occasionally irrespective of make, size or type. But then, they usually happen on liquid-fueled lanterns when I somehow failed to sufficiently preheat the gens. That of course, were different from what Dashwood has been experiencing here. Mine were mostly been due to liquid fuel hitting the mantles.
From my general experience, the whooomphs were not particularly violent on most light-up occasions unless there had been too long a delay before the gas ignites. There would then be too much of it being accumulated in the vicinity of the mantle. That'd cause a more explosive ignition where the mantle would likely be damaged.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#15

Post by MYN927 »

We'll never know for sure the quality of these mantles. In my location, I could get them pretty cheap. A 4-pack would cost just the equivalent of 4.10 USD with no additional freight charges. Shipping from Mainland China.
This would be what they look like:-

Image
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#16

Post by Dashwood »

MYN927 wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:57 pm We'll never know for sure the quality of these mantles. In my location, I could get them pretty cheap. A 4-pack would cost just the equivalent of 4.10 USD with no additional freight charges. Shipping from Mainland China.
This would be what they look like:-

Image
Funny I just bought some china mantles just like those, they hold up far better than the branded #95's.

They are admittedly baggy and the flames on Northstar isn't hot enough. I just hit it with a high temp blowtorch to shrink them more while it's burning, shaping it.

They retain that proper tube like shape, just like the photo on the box. Unsure why the branded #95 shrink so much that they get skinny and overstretched.

Do note the burner to support gap on the older style Northstar lantern (2000-750 and 2500-750) is a good half inch shorter than the current Northstar offering. This would explain a lot about why the branded #95 shrink and stretch so much.

Anyways I will get some photos to share here tonight with the china mantles, perfectly shaped.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#17

Post by Dashwood »

An update to the #95 mantle debacle. I have decided to undertake an experiment and literally bought out all the current inventory of old new-stock #95 mantles from OCP

These older #95 mantles have a different model number vs the current offerings you run into like amazon or probably walmart. These old new stock have a model number 95-102 vs the current amazon offerings which are sold as 95-132
My old 2000 CF Northstar came with an unfired #95 (I didn't use) which I would assume it's one of the older 102 models. These are the mantles that uses those twist clip ties and seemed to be slightly wider and longer. The cotton feels way more sturdier and hardier than what's currently sold on amazon.

Perhaps there has been a dip in quality as of late.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#18

Post by Lines »

Good investigative work dashwood. Hope that the NOS mantles solve your problem. Thanks for the information.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#19

Post by Dashwood »

Do these new propane Northstars have jet or oriface? I have a feeling maybe my Northstar's jet is maybe loose and could be tighten to reduce the amount of gas and airflow from blowing out the mantles assuming it's possibly leaking. It does flicker alot with a bit of a roar.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#20

Post by MYN927 »

Its good that you find the China-mantles work well enough. At least the prices should be low enough that it won't be too heartbreaking when the mantles get damaged.
Any lantern, be it liquid-fueled or propane, would have a jet.
Usually, propane lantern jets/gas tips would have larger orifices than the liquid-fueled versions of the same outputs/cp.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#21

Post by Dashwood »

MYN927 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:02 am Its good that you find the China-mantles work well enough. At least the prices should be low enough that it won't be too heartbreaking when the mantles get damaged.
Any lantern, be it liquid-fueled or propane, would have a jet.
Usually, propane lantern jets/gas tips would have larger orifices than the liquid-fueled versions of the same outputs/cp.
I wonder if the liquid jets would be compatible with my propane Northstar, it would help alleviate the burn out of my mantles.

The older version of the propane Northstar were assembled identical to the dual fuel one, even had an exposed generator tube with internal pricker. The generators sold for the dual fuel Northstar were compatible with her 2500 series propane sibling.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#22

Post by MYN927 »

They might if you could fit them in. If they have smaller orifices, then the light output would naturally be somewhat reduced.
But having said that, I think it wouldn't be that sensible to go to the extent of having to suit a lantern to its mantles. Shouldn't that be the other way around?
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#23

Post by Dashwood »

I honestly think it's due to the burner height on the most recent Northstar offering from Amazon, they are staggeringly high. But other people don't seem to have much issue with theirs. I've fired without the mantles to see if the flame burns properly and it seems the white flame cone burns well below the burner. Can someone confirm this? The flame cone on my dual fuel Northstar sticks to the burner.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#24

Post by Dashwood »

An update:

Just informing other owners of current propane Northstars.
Under the screw on the knob there is a set screw that is keyed by an Allen wrench. You can adjust the flow of fuel entering the burners. Turning counterclockwise reduces flow while clockwise increases it.

Hope this will alleviate some blowout or excessive mantle shrinking for some.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#25

Post by Dashwood »

#95 mantles still developing holes, is there anything I'm doing wrong?'

Here's my DF Northstar Lantern with said mantles.


Image
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#26

Post by Tgarner01 »

Looks good in that picture
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#27

Post by Dashwood »

Tgarner01 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:37 am Looks good in that picture
There's a tear down at the bottom that slowly gets bigger with each firing.

It seems these mantles have some of the worst thermal expansion of any mantles I've came across.
The hole gets bigger when it cools.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#28

Post by MYN927 »

"It seems these mantles have some of the worst thermal expansion of any mantles I've came across.
The hole gets bigger when it cools."

That's due more to shrinkage than expansion.
The amount could vary from batch to batch.
It might eventually rip apart at full-throttle.
There isn't much you can do about that except, maybe, run the lantern at lower outputs.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#29

Post by Dashwood »

MYN927 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:34 am "It seems these mantles have some of the worst thermal expansion of any mantles I've came across.
The hole gets bigger when it cools."

That's due more to shrinkage than expansion.
The amount could vary from batch to batch.
It might eventually rip apart at full-throttle.
There isn't much you can do about that except, maybe, run the lantern at lower outputs.
I'm probably gonna shelve the Northstar for a bit.
I do have NOS Coleman branded #95s with the older insta-clip mantles that I haven't tried yet (the metal clasp ties where you twist the metal to lock onto the burners.) But I just don't have the heart or confidence to keep trying.

In other news I'll have a new workhorse soon, a 220f.
Hopefully this lantern is less headache inducing.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#30

Post by MYN927 »

220F is a fine lantern. You should be able to make it work without much trouble.
But then, it'd likely not be as fun and challenging as what you're at now.

There are other little tricks you can still try out on the Northstar. That's provided you have a whole bunch of inexpensive #95 mantles at hand. I bet you could get them at unbelievably low prices from China. I'd never give up on anything that has to do with lanterns. Especially when its stubborn and putting up a fight.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#31

Post by Dashwood »

MYN927 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:33 pm 220F is a fine lantern. You should be able to make it work without much trouble.
But then, it'd likely not be as fun and challenging as what you're at now.

There are other little tricks you can still try out on the Northstar. That's provided you have a whole bunch of inexpensive #95 mantles at hand. I bet you could get them at unbelievably low prices from China. I'd never give up on anything that has to do with lanterns. Especially when its stubborn and putting up a fight.
The issue with the Chinese ones is that they're tailored fit for the current production propane Northstars which have a wider burner to bottom support gap. So affixing them onto the older DF Northstars results in them being excessively baggy even after shrinking in and even hitting it with a MAP torch AND having them tied above the burner cap lip.
They also excessively over flame which probably has overheated the crimp on my burner tube loose.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#32

Post by Dashwood »

Did a test today with some new #95 mantles.

After affixing them, I prestretched the top and bottom ends of the mantle by tugging them excessively on the supports and burner.
Then I've preburned with a very soft flame. (trusty zippo).
They no longer excessively shrink once lit, not sure if it's a batch issue, unsure.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#33

Post by bluepen61 »

FWIW,
On my Northstar (CF), I install the #95 mantle, turn the lantern upside-down, then burn-off the mantle. After some cooling, flip the lantern back to right-side up, and light it up. Seems to prevent the sag that sometimes happens with new #95 mantles.
I hope this helps.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#34

Post by MYN927 »

Yes, little tricks like that are many and about.
I wouldn't be particularly surprised that the mantles hadn't been produced under strict quality control these days. Mantle production are no longer staple industries as they used to be anymore. Batch to batch variations are expected and there are definitely more than a few factories producing those.
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#35

Post by Dashwood »

MYN927 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:46 am Yes, little tricks like that are many and about.
I wouldn't be particularly surprised that the mantles hadn't been produced under strict quality control these days. Mantle production are no longer staple industries as they used to be anymore. Batch to batch variations are expected and there are definitely more than a few factories producing those.
I did manage to bulk purchase these brand new "current" production (Model #95-135C) #95 Coleman mantles from a Canadian seller on ebay and they were surprisingly resilient. The usuals I used to snag were from Amazon and they are terrible!
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Re: #95 Mantle burn in.

#36

Post by MYN927 »

Obviously, there's something about those mantles...they ain't made the same.
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